Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

I have recently been informed that the the 490 years from the issuing of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem ended 3 1/2 years post resurrection. At least that is one accounting. This is also the time when the church is driven out of Jerusalem due to persecution.

Are there two desolations? One after Jesus confirms the new covenant for one week; as in His 3 1/2 years of preaching, then His annulling of the old covenant in the middle of the week by putting to death the old man, followed by 3 1/2 years of the Holy Spirit He sent.
The Holy Spirit sets up His image in the temple (people) until Stephen, who is full of the Holy Spirit continually, is put to death. This causes desolation as God's people (temple) are driven out of Jerusalem. This also finishes the 490 year countdown when God is effectively finished with taking the gospel to Jerusalem because he has a new creation; Jerusalem is rebuilt and mobile. Later when Paul decides to try again to take the gospel to his people in the flesh he is warned by the Holy Spirit that nothing but suffering will come of it.

Jesus is raised to the 3rd day, which is half way through the creation week of the new covenant. After the week is over, the new covenant is driven out of Jerusalem; reversing the curse of the law.

The other week that ends in desolation is the one week (7 years) prior to AD 70. This is the poetic justice anti-creation week covenant back on the original desolators.

Any one?

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Hello all,

This is my first post here.  I've been studying this issue (the Seventy Weeks of Daniel) and others related for several years now.  I don't know where the OP got the calculations that have the period ending either shortly following the resurrection of Christ or after the stoning of Stephen.  However, I have seen some confusion in the scholars as to the exact starting point of the 490 year period.  I suggest that it may be better to relate this period to something that is far more visible and indentifiable. 

Daniel 9:25-26 [KJV-Strongs]
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

What I have not seen or heard anyone deal with is the fact that Daniel is told in verse 26 that Messiah shall be "cut off" in the 63rd week ("after threescore and two weeks").  I cannot but think being "cut off" can only refer to his crucifixion.  Yet, in the preceding verse we are told that "unto Messiah the prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks."  This is 69 weeks "unto Messiah."  This MUST be referring to his parousia in AD70.  If he is crucified ("cut off") sometime in the 63rd week, then his parousia would be at the beginning of the 70th week.  This means there MUST be a timespan of approximately 6 weeks AFTER his crucifixion until the parousia.  Six weeks is 42 years give or take.  There is NO WAY that the currently referenced calculations cited by the OP can be correct, at least in my view.  Daniel's prophecy in 9:25-26, as far as I'm concerned, leaves no room for anything less than a 40 year span of time following the crucifixion of Christ.  Unless I'm just dead wrong on what Messiah being "cut off" means. 

It seems to me that the starting point, the "commandment to restore and  to build Jerusalem," should be back-figured and searched for from the starting point of Messiah's crucifixion, since that date is more easily pinpointed in the historical record.  

Comments?

Hello Paul Sauls,

Welcome

You obviously know that seven weeks and three score and two weeks is 69:  7 + 60 + 2 = 69

So you think it refers to a different three score and two weeks in the next verse because the whole previous sentence is not repeated?  69 x 7 = 483  and  63 x 7 = 441   and   483 - 441 = 42 just as you said. 

I guess the math works better for the 40 years but I need more time to think about it. I think history says Jesus was crucified in the 70th week after the command to restore Jerusalem. I would be interested to see your proposed starting date. Your scenario would place the command to restore jerusalem at 483 years before AD 70. I don't think historical records can back that up. I could be wrong of course. 

The beginning date of the 490 years isn't as definitively known, as far as I have heard.  I see the two statements of 69 and 63 weeks as two entirely separate statements with entirely separate events to occur.  The phrase "unto Messiah" is somewhat vague, but I attribute that to mean his coming to anoint the Most Holy place of the Messianic Temple, the body of Christ, in preparation for the destruction of the physical Jerusalem temple.  Can his being "cut off" refer to any other event besides his crucifixion?  I cannot think of anything else that would qualify.

My logic for his Parousia ( the "unto Messiah" statement) at least beginning at the juncture of the 69th and 70th week is that I see that whole seven year period as the final preparations for the actual event.  I think his parousia is not and cannot be limited to a specific calendar "day", especially since the actual siege lasted 5 months. 

Also, Daniel 9:24 says that the last thing to be accomplished at the end of the Seventy Weeks was to anoint the Most Holy.  This is commonly understood to refer to the "Holy of Holies" in the Messianic Temple which would correspond to the "Most Holy Place" in the Jerusalem Temple.  However, since the New Covenant Temple is the BODY OF CHRIST, then I think most rightly that the "Most Holy" would be the anointing of Messiah himself.  There is no "place" anymore to be anointed as in a man-made temple building.  This is another reason I believe that the statement in 9:25 which says:

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:"

....refers to his coming to be anointed at the beginning of the final week in preparation for the Great Tribulation. 

I am happy to defer to greater wisdom and I haven't seen or read any of Don Preston's more detailed teaching yet on the Messianic Temple, but this is how I see it for now. 

Paul Sauls,

I think anointing biblically refers to choosing the next king. Most apply this to Jesus baptism. That is when the Holy Spirit remained on him. The one you see the holy Spirit remain on is the one. And a voice from heaven said he was God's son. This is when Jesus passed the wilderness test after 40 days and began his public ministry and stood as the image of God in man. I think he was declared to be the king who would rule at this anointing. 

Jesus entered the holy of holies in heaven 3 1/2 years later at his ascension, which I think was the middle of the seven last years when he annulled the old covenant. He then sent the Holy Spirit to anoint the temple in Jerusalem, which as you say was now the people not the building. Stephen was full of the anointing Holy Spirit when he was stoned and the church was driven out into the wilderness.

The church was driven out of the rebuilt Jerusalem because they were full of the anointing Holy Spirit. 

I am still trying to figure this out myself, Just throwing thoughts out there. There does seem to be another seven year anti-creation week for Jerusalem just prior to AD 70. 

I think the challenge is how to fit the below (and others) into the 70 weeks:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

How do you fit these in your veiw?

The seventy weeks of years are divided into three periods of time: a seven-week period spanning forty-nine years, a sixty-two week period spanning 434 years, and a final period of one week spanning seven years.[38][39] The first period of seven weeks begins with the departure of a "word" to rebuild Jerusalem and ends with the arrival of an "anointed prince" (v. 25a). This "word" to rebuild Jerusalem has generally been taken to refer to Jeremiah's seventy years prophecy and dated to the fourth year of Jehoiakim (or the first year of Nebuchadnezzar) in 605/4 BCE.[40][41] Collins objects to this identification on the basis that "[t]he word to rebuild Jerusalem could scarcely have gone forth before it was destroyed" and prefers to see this as a reference to the "word" that Gabriel came to give Daniel in v. 23;[42] other possible candidates suggested by critical scholars include the edict of Cyrus in 539/8 BCE,[43][44] the decree of Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BCE,[45][46] and the warrant given to Nehemiah in 445/4 BCE.[45][46] The word translated as "prince" in v. 25a may refer to either an actual prince or some other figure of authority; and critical scholars have proposed various candidates for this figure as well, including Cyrus (cf. Isa 45:1),[47][48] High Priest Joshua,[49][50] Zerubbabel,[46][50] Sheshbazzar,[51] Ezra,[52] Nehemiah,[53] and even the collective people of God in the Second Temple period.[54]

Following the subsequent period of sixty-two weeks—during which time the city is rebuilt (v. 25b)—an "anointed one shall be cut off" (v. 26a); this "anointed one" is generally considered to refer to High Priest Onias III,[49][55] whose death at the hands of Seleucid officials outside Jerusalem in 171/0 BCE is recorded in 2 Maccabees 4:23-28.[56] The identification is further supported by the fact that most critical scholars see another reference to Onias III's murder in Daniel 11:22,[57][58] though Ptolemy VI and the infant son of Seleucus IV have also been suggested.[59]

The "prince who is to come" in v. 26b is typically seen by critical scholars as a reference to Antiochus IV,[58] though Jason and Menelaus have also been suggested.[67][58] Hence, the "troops of the prince" are either thought to be the Seleucid troops that settled in Jerusalem (cf. Dan 11:31; 1 Macc 1:29-40) or the Jewish hellenizers.[68][58]

The "covenant" in v. 27a most likely refers to the "covenant" reported in 1 Maccabees 1:11 between the Jewish hellenizers and Antiochus IV,[67][68] with the ban on regular worship for a period that lasted approximately three and a half years alluded to in the subsequent clause (cf. Dan 7:25; 8:14; 12:11).[68][71]

The reference to an "abomination that desolates" in v. 27b (cf. 1 Macc 1:54) is another point of contention among critical scholars. One of the more popular older views was that this difficult phrase was a contemptuous deformation (or dysphemism) of the Phoenician deity Baal Shamin—the "Lord of Heaven"—whom Philo of Byblos identified with the Greek sky god Zeus.[72] Moreover, the temple in Jerusalem was rededicated in honor of Zeus according to 2 Maccabees 6:2, hence the tendency among older commentators to follow Porphyry in seeing this "abomination" in terms of a statue of Zeus.[73] More recently, it has been suggested that the reference is to certain sacred stones (possibly meteorites) that were affixed to the great alter of sacrifice for the purposes of pagan worship in the temple,[74][75] since the use of such stones is well-attested in Canaanite and Syrian cults.[76] The aforementioned proposals have been criticized, however, on the basis that they are either too speculative, dependent on flawed analysis, or not well-suited to the relevant context in the Book of Daniel.[76][77] Increasingly, critical scholars tend to see the expression as being a reference to either the pagan offerings that were given during the Antiochene crisis instead of the twice daily continual offering that was forbidden (cf. Dan 11:31; 12:11; 2 Macc 6:5),[78] or the pagan altar on which such offerings were made.[79][76]

STH

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

How do you fit these in your veiw?

The restoration of Jewish worship in the temple by Judah Maccabee in 164BC.

How do you understand the restoration as bring in everlasting righteousness and sealing up vision?

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