O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Are we still orphans? Are there time text in 1 Cor 15?

If Christ has not come, then we are still waiting to be where he is.

John 14:3 “And I go and prepare a place for you, I will come
back and take you to be with me that you also may be where
I am.”

John 14:18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come
to you.

John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and
I am coming back to you.’  If you loved me, you would
be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is
greater than I." 


Time text for the the coming of the Kingdom.

1Co 15:50  I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1Co 15:51  Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


How many Kingdoms are coming? And how would the 1st century Christians know?


Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.

Luk 21:31  So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Luk 21:32  Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place.



Jesus "Luk 24:44  Then he said to them, "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

Mar 1:15  and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."


My challenge to my futurist friends is to show me with the scriptures that Jesus spoke of...the same scriptures Paul and all the Apostles spoke of teaches two comings one a spiritual and one a physical separated by 2,000 years and counting.

One Kingdom that came at 70AD and another at some point in the future.



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"Like you pointed out even Christians think Jesus was mistaken.How can you expect skeptics and others to take the Bible serious if he was wrong about his return?"


I would have to agree with the skeptics. If Jesus was wrong about his return, he isn't God. It's that simple. And Christianity is no different than any other man-made religion. And the things that people like Freud and Marx said about religion in general would apply to Christianity all the more. Because if Jesus claimed to be God, when he wasn't, the particular delusion of Christianity would be seen as especially extreme.



I would like to add John 14:10 to your list of scriptural proof texts

"Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority.

Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work"


You are right. It was Yahweh Himself who spoke all of these words through His own incarnate manifestation in the kosmos (κόσμον)

Thanks Euripides.


We sure have ample evidence to prove that none of us were left as orphans don't we. I love that verse you added. 



John and Tami, thank you for your further input on this.

C.S. Lewis, and others, seem to be okay with giving Jesus a mulligan, for the life of me I do not know why for the reasons you both emphasized. Going further into the matter, none of these "pass giver's" even note their implication of the Father, who gave His words to the Son and then to the Apostles, as being the actual source of the delusions, misgivings, false hopes, and the biggest failure in prophetic church history they claim to be the case. Not one calls the Father "wrong" even in the face of multiple Scriptures declaring all these prophecies came from Him to the Son.


I guess it is less risky to say Jesus and His Apostles were ignorant than to risk calling the Father ignorant directly. As we have seen from the scriptures posted, this is in fact what is actually going on.


Blessings to you!


I belive the time text are enough of an arguement by themselves, ie shortly, at the door, day at hand etc.


But I also look at the events and people such as John the Baptist, no one said"Hey buddy come back in 2 thousand years" or the prophecy of Joel being declared as that day in Acts 2:16 as a mistake.


The disciples did expect a 1st century parousia. Both preterist and most futurist will agree with that.

Lets not discuss if they were right or wrong, but perhaps the argument is in where did they get that idea? Who taught them that they were looking for the parousia within their lifetime.




PWB - did we just say the same thing? LOL. And, yes, all the events add up to the fact Jesus wasn't deaf towards His Father.


Hope all is good with you, John. 

I dont know, Ive been ignoring your comments for the last 5 years!! hahaha JK of course and everything is good.

PWB - next time I come through Denver, I'll be sure to contact you and let you know I won't be coming by to see you! Still the bad boy hahaha. Remember, don't take the yellow microchips.


Take care :-)

Your welcome to stop by anytime. Ill fire up the grill and we can have some red heifer steaks : )


Olivet Discourse Movie

How the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in the first century.
Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21
Riley O'Brien Powell


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