O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Gods will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. The Kingdom of God is on Earth and in Heaven, for all of The Judgments have happened. If The Kingdom God is established on Earth, it is made up of a Body of Believers only. For no Sinner can be of the New Creation. Believers in and of The New Creation, as The Old Creation has passed away (People/Place/and Covenant), never able to return. Believers being of The within the Fulfilled New Covenant. Age without End.
..I don't understand where the preterist gets the idea that all things spoken of in the 'end of days' to come has already come to pass..you may explain it to me, but please, be kind and remember I do not have a degree, I only have an 8th grade education and so when someone throws words at me I do not understand, I have to look them up..soooo time consuming..
I will make this very easy, The 'End of Day' were The End of the Old Covenant Kingdom, only. If All of the Judgments have not been done (Judgments of Blessings and Curses) Then The Old Covenant and All of The Covenants before that are still in Full Force and 'we' are all under The Death Cloud. We would not and can not be 'in' the New Covenant.
Good to see another woman around my own age posting here, and of the same approximate education level (nothing beyond a high school diploma for me), especially one who can freely express their love for the Savior. It's refreshing, and God takes note of it. Those that honor Him, He will honor.
I've read through your recent posts on the "Resurrection" thread, since they came up on my email. That was a post with many pages to sift through, so I'd be surprised if you read through all of it. I jumped into that particular discussion about 26 pages in, if I remember rightly.
Your questions above, which I believe are directed to all:
"Are you saying Yeshua will not return and set up a millennium rule?" I would agree with many on this forum that the millennium rule is long over. Personally, I believe scripture teaches that it was a literal one thousand years, ending in the AD 33 "First Resurrection" of "Christ the First-fruits", and the 144,000 First-fruits Matthew 27:52-53 saints that were bodily and physically raised to "live again" with incorruptible life along with Jesus. None of these ever died again. Not a possibility, for anyone in Christ raised by the Spirit's power.
Since Revelation 20:5 places the end of the millennium just after the "First Resurrection", which was the time when Christ the "First-begotten" and the "First-born" arose from among the dead, that means the millennium began one thousand years earlier, when Solomon's temple foundation stone was laid back in the Old Testament (967 BC). There are historians' accounts that can confirm this date for us, as well as other scriptures that confirm the purpose and the timing for this past fulfilled millennium.
That literal thousand years of physical temple worship based in Jerusalem was meant to foreshadow the real foundation stone of the True Temple made without hands - Jesus Christ, who was the "chief cornerstone" of this temple made of "living stones" (which we are, as believers in the New Jerusalem of the New Covenant). Satan's effects of deceiving the nations of the world were restricted by a "chain" (but not eliminated) during that time when the knowledge of the God of Israel was going into the nations by means of Solomon's reputation for wisdom and the glory of the temple he constructed, and the later ministry of the prophets, both spoken and written.
The clearest way I can describe when the literal thousand-year millennium was completed is in this short sentence: The millennium ended when Jesus ascended, and the Devil descended. He was to be released for only a "short time" and a "little season" (Rev. 20:3). Scripture itself defines how long a "little season" is. A "little season" has to be less than 40 years, because Joshua 24:7 says that the Israelites "dwelt in the wilderness a LONG SEASON", and we know that this was 40 years exactly (Deut. 8:2).
That means Satan was loosed from his chain after Christ ascended in AD 33, and he was then cast out of heaven to the earth with his angels to deceive the nations for a period of time that had to be less than 40 years. We have lots of testimony in the NT epistles proving that Satan was working overtime during those first-century days, deceiving whoever he could (as the "roaring lion" of I Peter 5:8).
Your other question was "Are you saying no one will rise from the grave upon His return?" I may be one of the very few on this website who would give the firm answer NO to that question. Most definitely, all the believers who will have lived and died during the New Covenant Age will share the same inheritance of a glorified, physically-resurrected, incorruptible body form - just like Christ's - in a final resurrection at the close of the New Covenant Age. An "AGE", simply by definition, has a beginning and ALSO an ending point. The planet itself does not have an end ("the earth abideth forever"), but AGES definitely have beginning and ending points in history.
The difference between you and me, Julia, is that I see THREE resurrections that scripture scheduled for mankind to participate in. The first one was at Passover in AD 33, composed of Christ and the 144,000 First-fruits raised from the dead. The second one was on Pentecost Day in AD 70, when a physically-returning Christ gathered all His saints from the location of the Mount of Olives, where Zechariah 14:4-5 predicted He would stand. The third, last resurrection will be in our future at the close of the New Covenant Age. By every symbolic reference I can find in scripture, that will be during the Feast of Tabernacles in 3033, at the end of exactly 7,000 years of fallen man's history on this planet; a fulfillment of the types laid out in the 7-day creation week (because a day is representative of a thousand years in God's sight - II Peter 3:8).
You mentioned those under the altar who were asking for vengeance. They were told to "rest for a LITTLE SEASON, until their fellow-servants also and their brethren that were ABOUT TO BE KILLED would be fulfilled." Remember, a "little season", by scripture's pattern, should be a period of time that's less than 40 years. So, if you know when Revelation was written, it was about to be less than 40 years before the rest of the complete group of martyrs would join those under the altar in a martyrdom similar to theirs. Of course, this does not disregard any martyrs who have given their lives for Christ's cause since AD 70. God is faithful to reward all of these, just as He rewarded the martyrs from under the Old Covenant Age in the AD 70 resurrection.
That brings us to a study of exactly when Revelation was written, which I have spent 6 years confirming to a date of late AD 59 to early AD 60, by internal evidence within scripture itself. All WRITTEN prophesy was fulfilled by AD 70, but as you know, not all prophesy in Revelation 10:4 was written down; some was NOT WRITTEN by John, but was commanded to be SEALED for later fulfillment after AD 70, which includes times future to us at present.
As you can tell, my views sit somewhere in between all the differing interpretations. But like yourself, I labor to remain faithfully committed to scripture as far as humanly possible.
Hi again Julia,
I am indeed waiting for the next return of Christ to this planet. I won't mind waiting in the grave until my body's change into incorruptibility comes, just like Job said in Job 14:14, because God is as good as His promise that He "shall come unto us as the rain; as the latter and the former rain unto the earth" (Hosea 6:3). This verse, as well as the one like it in James 5:7-8, shows me that God always intended His comings (plural) to be timed according to the rainy seasons that the land of Israel typically experienced. The climate of Israel is very predictable, with a clear division between two basic seasons of summer and winter, flanked by these "Former" and "Latter" rain periods. That is what the whole Mosaic sacrificial worship system was built around; to picture three eventual "harvests" of human bodies out of the ground, matching the three required harvest feast celebration festivals of the year in Jerusalem.
It's true that this view sounds confusing, as you said. Totally unlike the pre-mil dispensational teaching under which I was raised from early childhood. But I have to stick with the way scripture lays these things out for us, instead of remaining with a traditional teaching that did not consider the original languages in which scripture was written.
Reading scripture side by side with the Greek definitely shows us an imminent occurrence for the prophesies laid out in the New Testament that would be fulfilled very soon to that first-century generation. Even without considering the Greek, the imminence factor for the first-century believers comes through. For example, the simple verse you ended your comment with, "And that knowing the time, that NOW it is high time to awake out of sleep: for NOW is our salvation nearer than when we believed." (Rom. 13:11). That term "NOW" first applied to the time when it was originally written, as a warning especially to those first-century believers to heed. Their "salvation", which would be completed with a bodily resurrection for them if they died before AD 70, was indeed NEARER to them than when they had first believed.
However, your urgency expressed about a time period for us of the next 10-15 years is not entirely without foundation. We are building up to a climax point of some sort, and within that approximate period of time. According to how I see scripture dividing up the 7 millennia of human history, we are rapidly approaching the end of the 6th millennium, which ends in 2033. Fourteen years from now. This is based on scripture's terms of when the 4th millennium ended, with Christ's resurrection and ascension in AD 33.
For lack of a better term, I call this soon-approaching 7th millennium of fallen mankind's history the "Sabbath millennium". Like all other Sabbath periods described in scripture, it will be characterized by an imposed rest for the planet of some kind. Just how the conditions of that "rest" for this planet will be brought about, we don't need to know. What we DO know is that the progress of Christ's kingdom is promised to continue for this world; like leaven, like the mustard seed, like Daniel's rock growing until it fills the earth. God has already promised that "of the increase of His government and peace there shall be NO END" (Isaiah 9:7). This is increasing peace between God and man as an increasing number of people are brought into the kingdom of God; not necessarily a peace between unbelievers and believers, which friction between these two will continue to be a factor until the end of the New Covenant Age.
If you are interested in how I see scripture's pattern for these 7 total millennia giving a mirror image of God's creative activities on each of the 7 days of creation week, here a link to where I discussed that topic with a gentleman called Eddie:
I appreciate your heavy concern for those of us who you sincerely believe to be deceived by demonic forces in our preterist views. But we are relying of scripture's promise to the first-century believers that those same demonic forces and even Satan himself would "shortly" be crushed under their feet back then (Romans 16:20). That was a promise fulfilled to them in that time period. It took a while before I could recognize that this promise actually WAS fulfilled to that very generation Paul was writing to. The time statements actually do mean what they said back then.
Also, we have other scriptures that give this same promise of just when God would rid this planet of demonic and Satanic evil for all time. It was definitely at the end of the AD 70 period, by every other promise we have in scripture. We no longer have a struggle with this demonic realm which has been eradicated since then; just a remaining struggle with the evil that comes from within the sinful desires of men's hearts, which is bad enough to deal with, as you have already admitted.
Are you done Julia?
What a pathetic rant...
We appreciate new members and pride ourselves in having respect and patience with anyone who truly wants to engage in serious discussions.
Many of our members have been here for years and hold to differing views on many topics.
Therefore we've had years of interaction and challenging each other.
You're not the first "holly roller" to drop in and try and proselytize...but you're one of least brightest and most disrespectful... most at least have some biblical knowledge and don't just rely on ad hominems...look up straw man while you're at it.
Posting a bunch of verses and then making the claim that you and only you have the truth, is not a substitute for Biblical studies or dialogue .
Questioning someone's faith and presupposing who's a child of God or not isn't yours or my job, it's very disrespectful and destroys any chance of having a fruitful discussion.
This is why futurist like yourself don't have the capacity or the heart to witness for Christ, but instead you people make Christians look like fools. Sorry, but that's the kindest word I could come up with.
Feel free to stick around and post...I doubt you will...but anything you post that disparages a member here or questions their faith will be deleted.
Hello Julia, I will be offline for a week or so, so do not think that I am ignoring you.
Could I ask you 'why' you would think that Jesus Christ would 'come back', in 10-15 years? I have witnessed many Christian Brothers and Sisters over the last 55 years say the very same thing... and here we are 'waiting and waiting' for the 'Physical' 'return' of a flesh and blood MAN. Many within Churchanity (yes that was a slur) have 'waited' for over 2,000 years for said 'return. God the Father is not a flesh and blood 'man' and the Holy Spirit is not a flesh and blood 'man' (unless you want to point out that the Holy Spirit is within all who belong to Jesus Christ) and the TRUE NATURE of Jesus Christ is not a flesh and blood 'man'. 'We' are to be as HE is, not the other way around. God, created 'man' in the flesh out of dirt and was given the breath of Life and became a Living Soul and 'man' wants to do the same thing and create 'god' out of dirt.... it does not work that way...Do you realize, Julia, that 'futurists' have been waiting for a flesh and blood Jesus Christ for over 2,000 years? Do you realize that the whole timeline of the Mosaic Cultus until it was destroyed (AD70) was 1,500 years? YOU and those who believe as you do have been 'waiting' longer for the 'Promised' 'Coming' and Fullness of The New Covenant kept Promises, 500 years longer than the whole timeline of the Old Covenant. You 'say' that I 'have no Hope'... Read Proverbs 13:12
Nice visual for how one can be LIVING FROM HEAVEN NOW in 3:54 mins - https://youtu.be/HYsKrbUC5Z4
for more see these Michael Nichols' books... specifically:
* Preterism and the Afterlife... By Michael Alan Nichols. Subtitle: "Plus: Parousia, Resurrection, Judgment, and the New Covenant Kingdom" An intermediate level study of Preterism from a sovereign grace, Full Preterist, rapture perspective. This book takes a deeper look into our "Afterlife". What happens when we die? What kind of body do we get? Also explains the Parousia, the Resurrection, the final Judgment, and the Kingdom in which we now live. It offers over 600 scriptural footnotes. Teaches the priesthood of all believers and challenges the church to rethink its priorities and focus (worldview) going forward in human history. This book provides a bonus section presenting 70 verses that were fulfilled by 70ad with commentary on each to help Preterists share with others. 138 pp pbm - http://www.preterist.org/products/preterism-and-the-afterlife
* Praying in the Kingdom (powerful) - Subtitled: "Principles for Productive Preterist Prayers." Explains what prayer is, why it is important, how to pray, what to pray for, and the kind of faith and attitudes that must accompany prayer. Also explains how prayer is different for a Preterist. Fourteen chapters. 95 pp pb http://www.preterist.org/products/praying-in-the-kingdom/
* Pathway to the New Kingdom - Subtitled: "Biblical Fundamentals and Fulfillments." A study of some of the major fundamentals of the Christian Faith, including the doctrines of Scripture, Salvation, Deity of Christ, the Trinity, and the fulfillment of Prophecy about the New Kingdom of Christ. A good doctrinal foundation for all. Manuscript size. Spiral bound. 124 pp pb
if you need help finding these books there are some "free" sources. contact me in a private msg here if you'd like to read these.
There is much more to do in making one's "calling and election sure" AFTER one 'enters' into the new kingdom, just as one is expected to learn the duties/responsibilities of any new "nation" one is "naturalized" into: Summary is here in the forums:
re "doctrine of demons" you may find the following books useful to be more like the bereans and search the word of elohim to "see if these things are so". man loves to elevate man's words & beliefs over the word of the creator (John 1:1,14) and re-define his word to hide truth. These humanistic "translators" insert their pre-judgements into how creator's word is to be "understood":
* Imagine there is no Satan - http://pc.cd/mLb (aka How Satan got into the N.T.)
* Satan: Christianity's Other God - http://pc.cd/817 (how man made Satan a god)
* This is it: Satan is Finished- http://pc.cd/WkOrtalK (satan from Acts to Revelation)
* Who's the Devil Jesus Knew? http://pc.cd/qTJ (explaining satan in the gospels)
* Satan Dispelled - http://pc.cd/QvXrtalK
a correct "Grammar" is the first stage of pure "search" along the narrow way that leads to truth. next comes "Logic" to extract OUT all the leaven (fallacies) of the neo-pharisees. and finally comes "Rhetoric" for wise application: https://www.minds.com/MTKonig/blog/why-the-7-liberating-arts-scienc...
short intro to Grammar-Logic-Rhetoric method:
Best video on understanding the trivium method:
https://youtu.be/SJ_X1SjmA5A he Trivium is an ancient method to learn and think effectively, and therefore to come to truth. It is like a manual for how our mind, as a "processing unit" works, and for how to use it in an effective way, without prejudging and logic errors.
This song's for you.
for un-married women there was specific instruction found in I Timothy 2:
maybe one should leave the teaching, speaking and rebuking (i.e. exercising authority) to one's husband (head, ruler, lord)?
if one left the teaching to one's husband, then all one could ever do is take refuge in one's bond-servant status which is truly a protection (covering, shield) from the penalties of teaching falsehoods, of false prophesies, rebellion to the one authority, etc.
I offered the book here before, that all could find much use in:
Obedience Training, by B.A. Hunter - https://archive.org/details/ObedienceTrainingByBAHunterSearchable