Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

I am trying to pin point when the law was given and when the old covenant begun. This is proving somewhat problematic for me.

So from 2 Pet 3:5,7 and Rev 21:1 it seems clear that the coming of the New Covenant was brought about by the passing of some heaven and earth.

Now it seems to me there are at least 2 heavens and earth, one being in Gen 1 and the other Isaiah 51:16. IF these are indeed two heavens and earth, which one passed at the parousia? If they are the same, how can that be?

I am assuming that Isaiah 51 speaks of God creating a covenant people, heavens and earth, at the Exodus.

If the story of Adam, is not a figure for Israel, i.e. Adam was a real individual and was given the law thus the formation of the first heavens and earth before Sinai, what then was brought by Moses? For John says:

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

So Im really stuck!

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IT: If the story of Adam, is not a figure for Israel, i.e. Adam was a real individual and was given the law thus the formation of the first heavens and earth before Sinai, what then was brought by Moses?

If however, Adam is indeed Israel, is there a problem? What was wrought at the hand of God and thereby Moses was the codifying of the law in terms of statutes and commandments etc, i.e., the handwriting of requirements”.

Greetings Davo

Great to hear from you. It had been a prolonged period of silence, I trust you are great.

I guess the challenge for me with Adam being Israel is how to deal with the genealogies since they go back to Adam. At what point in Genesis do we move from allegory to real history?

At some point there has to be the first covenant man/people and God seems to imply that His dealings with Israel were because of the covenant relationship with their fathers. So who was the first covenant man/father?. Did that relationship also require a different heavens and earth? If it did is this covenant creation recorded in the Bible and what becomes of the it?

Troll,

Preterism has taught for at least 20 years that Adam's curse in Genesis 3 was a covenant judgment.

This implies that the covenant began before Genesis 3.

Thanks Jeff

I agree too that the covenant surely began before Gen 3 and it would explain for me why the blood of Abel was required on Jesus' generation since it would be the same covenant. But two issues arise:

1) So how do you understand Isa 51:16 is that another covenant creation?
2) What do the verses which speak of the law as coming by Moses (John 1:17 and Rom 5) or the Old Covenant as originating from Sinai (Galatians 4) mean?

Im wouldnt be surprised if each one of those questions has a number of erroneous assumptions, feel free to correct me.

So, the challenge I am facing is that I am being led to conclude that Adam is actually Israel i.e. Adam was not a real person but is a character in a story representing Israel (which Israel was created at the Exodus.)

Thanks

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