O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

How do Preterists explain Matthew 24 : 21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be," since Hitler persecuted the Jews more than Titus ?

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To use Hitler as the all-time benchmark for the human misery index is a mistake.   We have never encountered the torment that ensues when God allows Satan and his demons unrestricted activity in a nation.  Remember Matthew 12:43-45, when Christ prophesies "the last state of that man being worse than the first".  This happened to that generation for a specified 5-month period according to Rev. 9:1-11, and will never be repeated again on this earth: #1, because the penultimate offense of crucifying the Son of God will never be repeated, and #2, because Satan and his demons were evicted by God at the end of the Old Covenant age and judged (Jude 6), never to reappear on this planet.  Hebrews 2:5 proves this when it says that the angels (evil ones) would not have any subjugating powers in "the about to come habitable earth", which speaks of the Hebrews audience's soon-to-come New Earth which we are in currently.   Any "kingdom" in this world that Satan and his demons were ever a part of "...are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."  (Rev. 11:15)

As wicked as Hitler and his regime was, he was never on a par with the Father of Lies.  Fortunately, this "Father's Day" is long over.   

Have you read Josephus about the destruction of The Heavens and Earth?  As long as the Temple stood it had standing. Can there be any Greater Tribulation as to when the Power of The Holy People was broken and their Temple and City and World were destroy? The Apostle Paul told the Thess. that the tribulation that they (Thess.)suffered would be turned back unto those that were giving it to them. Who but only the Temple Cultus peoples were giving the Thess. tribulation?

1st off 'until this time' would seem to preclude Hitler. But also we need to define what reference is intended by the 'beginning of the world'. Could it be the kosmos in view concerns Israel's beginnings vs the beginning of all creation? Because a few things in the context suggest that Israel is the context that narrows the scope of this passage. Eg. 'The elect', those who will flee Judea, the location of the 'holy place'; all suggest something a bit narrower than the entire world at some far off future time. I mean, exactly where would you find a 'holy place' today? Let alone in Hitler's time...therefore who could say that Christ might be in the secret chambers when the once holy temple is no where to be found - not even in the future! Men can build what they want , but without the consecration of God, it will never be a holy place.

It's called hyperbole.


The AD 70 events were God's judgment on His people.  It was preceded by clear warnings that judgment was imminent.

As terrible as it was, Hitler's Holocaust was not God's judgment and doesn't belong in the comparison.

Jesus compared the AD 70 events to the Genesis Flood and the destruction of Sodom, God's to most terrible judgments.  Jerusalem in AD 70 was truly worse.


I can say , amen to that ! Truly worse for the " lost sheep of Israeli ".

Another aspect if you wanted to get technical, research how many Jews were present on earth in the first century then subtract the amount killed.  Compare that % to the % of Jews who lived in the 1930's before Hitler ruled and subtract the number killed.  I think the point has been well enough made that this "destruction" was God ushered and was a judgment against them.  Hitler was not bringing judgment.  As far as the Jew might see it, the worst happened to them when their entire culture and religious life was torn from them in 70 a.d.

Brother tj smith do you think it possible to count heads of the Hebrew children with 5/6th of them are missing ? From the Seventh Century BC .  Sargon II brutally I say brutally in that we can only in part imagine what this barbaric  Assyrian Empire inflected on these Ten tribes . If they stuck to there MO , every city was burnt to the ground , most of the adult males where simple struck down and the young & females were kept and or bartered .

Whom in there wright mind would put a fixed number on exact count of every man , woman and children murdered by the Third Reich ? I've read one source as saying " no more than 500,000 " and another reporting a minimum of 12,000,000 . Most official estimates stand FROM 5 TO 7 1/2 million . Pinpointing every one , like a 12 gauge shotgun with # 8 bird shot .     

When did the " great tribulation " start ? I say , you would have had to cut John the baptizer's head OFF before convincing him , IT HAD NOT ALREADY STARTED !

The 12,000 by 12 tribes OF EVERY TRIBE ? Check the tribe names , there NOT correct and not complete .

I guess it's correct in the abstract , if you squint one ear .

Ron,  you prove my point perfectly.  It is an exercise of futility to try to compare first century deaths to 1930-40's.  So one should focus on WHY God did what he did.  The Jewish Dictionary even admits that there is not a "Jewish" race anymore. i.e. traceable bloodline.  So using the Jewish dictionary's own definition, what Hitler did was not done to the true Jewish race, rather to those claiming Jewish heritage but unable to rightly trace their lineage to a tribe.  Not to diminish the horror of what happened, but this argument that the "end" hasn't happened yet because more people died in the 20th century than the first needs to fade out.  This flimsy argument is not relevant to what Yahweh promised to do to that generation for their disobedience and idolatry.  Thanks for your common sense logic.

Jesus said that there will be the greatest tribulation since the beginning of the AGE.....not the world. And there will not be a greater tribulation toward Israel during the same age

That age ended in AD70

Thank you dear Euripides , some folks are unable is " see " , just who our Master was talking too . Addressing them as " ... you ..".

To Stairway. Your name fits this scripture well. Isaiah 28:10  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

If you understand these few scriptures, you will gain a lot of understanding of what generation Jesus was speaking of. I believe anyone who will completely trust all of what Jesus had to say, will give thoughtful and prayerful consideration to what He meant, and for whom He meant it.

Matthew 11:16 ¶But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

Mark 9:1 “And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled


Olivet Discourse Movie

How the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in the first century.
Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21
Riley O'Brien Powell


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