Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Are there any good readable and comprehensive articles on this passage of Job 19:25-27, which also address the peculiar Septuagint translation? Or does anyone have an explanation they can offer on this forum?

Thanks

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It would seem that Job shared in the hope of Israel for the resurrection of the dead when Messiah appeared in the earth.

Job 19:25, 26:  “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”

"This is the only verse in the Bible that makes reference to the flesh in apparent connection with the resurrection.  “Apparent,” I say, because the verse does not actually mention the resurrection.  It is entirely possible that Job looked to see God in this life time, as in fact he did:  “I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.”  (Job 42:5)  However, even assuming that the text posits a resurrection context, the Hebrew of this verse is so obscure and ambiguous that scholars cannot decide how it is to be translated.  Hence, the marginal reading gives the rendering, “After I shall awake, though this body be destroyed, yet out of my flesh...” etc.  In other words, two renderings, exactly opposite in meaning, can be sustained by the original tongue.  Thus, it cannot be determined with certainty what Job actually stated or said.  Given that this is the only place in scripture referring to the flesh in the context of the supposed resurrection, we would be well advised to opt for the alternate rendering.  At the very least, standing as it does alone, and more especially in view of the poetic nature of the book, no essential doctrine of scripture can be built upon it."

Don Preston "Resurrection of the Flesh"

You might want to read the complete artilce a lot of good infomation there.

Happy New Year!!!!

Thank you for your response, John. Why do you think the Septuagint translated this passage as:

For I know that He is eternal who is about to deliver me, and to raise up (ANASTESAI) upon the earth my skin that endures these sufferings: for these things have been accomplished to me of the Lord; which I am conscious of in myself, which my eye has seen, and not another, but all have been fulfilled to me in my bosom.

I will give Don's article a read now.

Hi Mark,

As you know that's an old translation you posted and there are newer ones.You can read the Oxford New English Translation here and see a big difference.

Some of the commentaries i have read are all over the place but i found the The Jewish Study Bible's comment that the eternal one is translated "vindicator" (go'el) "redeemer" and that Job is not speaking of God here but about a future kinsman who will vindicate him ,who will take revenge on God for what God has done to Job.

Blessings

John

I don't have a lot to offer here but to suggest as some have that the reading is supposedly 'without my flesh I shall see God"  rather than 'in my flesh'.   This is the first of very few indications that the spirit of a man lives on and the redeemed will behold the creator. YLT says this: 26And after my skin hath compassed this [body], Then from my  flesh I see God:

 

this suggests that after the flesh had rotted away, even then, from (as in I just came from work) my flesh I see God... some translations say without my flesh seeing Job has just stated after his skin a had rotted away.

 

hope this helps.

It seems that, in light of the alternate translated words, and also the cross-references, this verse is talking about 1) the way in which believers came to 'know' or 'see' God and His righteousness more fully at the consummation of the New Cov (~70ad).

and 2) a reference to Jesus' final triumph over the DUST of DEATH, i.e., the general or corporate resurrection ca ~70ad. If the better translation really is, "at last He will stand upon the DUST" then its likely talking about Jesus overcoming the dust of Adam's death with his promised new life, and how the people of God came to know God fully in their resurrected state. Even though the word resurrection isn't literally there, if this is a reference to Jesus finally defeating the dust, it would seem its the dust of Adam's death being referenced. And if that's true, then this seems like a magnificently poetic way of describing what happened, spiritually, covenantally, on the "last day" of the Old Covenant, ca ~70AD. Additionally, the cross-references point to the same time-frame and event.

Also, it's interesting that the alternate word regarding the state in which Job would see God seems has two opposite translations. Is the text saying Job would see God "in" his flesh, or "without" his flesh? At first glance, "in" seems to support a futurist/material view and "without" seems to support either IB or CB fulfilled resurrection views. I must admit that "without" flesh seems to make more sense, since the first part of the sentence says his skin was just destroyed. Thus, "without" flesh flows more naturally with the overall picture.


25  For I know that my Redeemer lives,

and at the Last He will stand upon the earth [or DUST].

26  And after my skin has been thus destroyed,

yet in3 [or WITHOUT] my flesh I shall ysee God,

27  whom I shall see for myself,

and my eyes shall behold, and not another.

My heart faints within me!

Y = Cross-References:

12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known1 Corinthians 13:12

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