Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Hi everybody, a new member with the same old questions here. I have been aware of preterism for a couple of years now and though I find much of it appealing I however have challenges with primarily 2 issues, one being the resurrection and the other being the end of the old covenant. These may even be the same question. Searching for discussions about these issues has led me here, Im sure it will be beneficial, so just bear with me guy.

 

How is 1 Cor 15:12-13 " Now if Christ is preached that he hath been raised from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither hath Christ been raised" to be understood 

Views: 7515

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Yes, I see and understand what you mean.

How is it to be understood? Well, consider that in order for Christ's promise to be fulfilled that "I will never leave you or forsake you", which itself is taken from an Old Testament promise in Deut. 31:6, and repeated prophetically in Heb. 13:5-6, Jesus had to be with His disciples until the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost. Jesus said that unless He left, the HS could not come.

Basically, the HS is God within us. Jesus was with us, but not IN us. Pentecost was the point at which God could be with us, physically and spiritually, at all times. That could not happen if Jesus stayed on earth in the flesh. He HAD to go, so that HS could come, so that the Kingdom could be grown.

But of course, in order for Jesus to come, He had to have a body. That physical body that came from the grave was the promise from Deut that God would never leave us.  The Kingdom of God is not visible, just as Jesus is not visible on earth now. 

So, just know that the body Jesus came up out of the grave served a purpose. The purpose was to be with us (the early church) until HS came. Once that was done, there was no further need for Jesus to physically be on earth.

Thinking that He came in bodily form so that we could see the example of how we would be resurrected is a false assumption. Knowing the purpose of Jesus' bodily appearance clears up this question.

Hie Doug

Jesus had to be with His disciples until the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost.

Not too sure what you mean by that cause Jesus left 10 or so days before Pentecost.

So, just know that the body Jesus came up out of the grave served a purpose. The purpose was to be with us (the early church) until HS came. Once that was done, there was no further need for Jesus to physically be on earth.

I have heard a number of purported reasons why Jesus rose with a physical body (including that it was the only way the disciples would know that sin-death had been defeated) but which scriptures inform us of this purpose which you are implying?

Knowing the purpose of Jesus' bodily appearance clears up this question.

Please supply scriptures which teach us this purpose.

Thinking that He came in bodily form so that we could see the example of how we would be resurrected is a false assumption

This is an interesting point for me, one I have not seen eye to eye with the majority on this platform but perhaps this time we can look at this point more closely but most importantly using scripture.

Jesus was the first to "rise from the dead" (whatever that is) and the rest of the believers were to also rise from the dead (whatever that is).

Do you agree with this?

If that is so, does that not imply that believers experience the same resurrection as Jesus (whatever that is)? 1 Cor 15:20,23; 1 Thes 4:14; Phil 3:21; 1 John 3:2

Let's first agree on this assumption before we even get to what it means that Jesus "rose from the dead" and that believers were to "rise from the dead".

Resurrection.......

One of the best expositions of this subject can be found as a Podcast by Ward Fenley at: http://www.newcreationministries.tv
Ward gives an enthusiastic overview of 'The Fools Question'. I think there's a link at the top of the page to the site. Also on You Tube.
I think you'll really enjoy it. I did.
Stephen

Thanks, will check it out.

Monday, 09 January 2017 20:55 Mike Sullivan

Boyardee,

You might want to read this article.

Hope you are well. 

John

John,

Is this the same Mike who we was hoping would help us with Romans 11?

If it is, hope you will be able to contact him for me/us.

Thanks John,

Great to hear from you, Im keeping well.

Wwill check it out as well.

Thanks Stephen and John for the references.

 

Usually I ask questions about where Im not clear, but for a change I will state what I acknowledged (i.e. well-presented and impressive points though which did not convince me).

 

The parallels and analogy of faith with Matthew 24 demonstrates a first century generation fulfillment of 1 Corinthians 15

 

As most of the NT is concerned with AD70, it is easy to make 1 Cor 15 fit into the first century fulfilment. Not only is this strengthened by the parallels with Mat 24 and 1 Thes 4 which are undoubtedly about AD70 but the use of “we shall not all sleep” is a very potent observation for a first century fulfilment.

 

Paul’s use of familiar corporate body words and phrases within the Corinthian letters and within his other Epistles

 

It is a reasonable assumption that Paul was consistent with his use of terms and it is easier to understand “soulish body” within a corporate context than an individual sense.

 

Paul’s appeal to Hosea 13 and Isaiah 25

 

The OT quotations fit in nicely with a corporate resurrection in view and like Sam Frost showed the corporate resurrection view feeds nicely into 1 Cor 16 i.e. the collection for the Jews. Further it ties in with Rev 21 which was fulfilled in AD70 and becomes even more powerful when considering that “all things written” were to be fulfilled as per Luke 21:22

 

There would be no victory over “the death” until victory over the Mosaic OC “the law” was reached.

 

The need to deal with the law to allow for resurrection and the timing of the passing away of the law are nicely explained in the full preterist interpretation.

RSS

Events

Forum

Adam as Israel

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll May 26. 6 Replies

The parousia and judgment of nations

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Joseph Rehby Jul 6. 16 Replies

Preterist Networking

Started by Judy Peterson in Prayer Requests. Last reply by John Aug 8, 2016. 17 Replies

The 10 Tribes of Israel

Started by Internet_Troll in Questions and Best Answers We Can Give!. Last reply by Internet_Troll May 22, 2016. 9 Replies

Online Teaching Elders

Started by Eohn Rhodes in Eschatology. Last reply by Doug Dec 22, 2015. 4 Replies

Who is the abomination of desolation ?

Started by Stairway To Heaven in Eschatology. Last reply by Brother Les Dec 11, 2015. 3 Replies

Divine council

Started by Sharon Q in Eschatology. Last reply by Sharon Q Oct 3, 2015. 5 Replies

Marriage and Divorce Motif Between God and Israel

Started by Andrew Reish in Eschatology. Last reply by Brother Les Jul 5, 2015. 5 Replies

Millennium

Started by Mark Baker in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll May 4, 2015. 48 Replies

Fulfilled prophecies of Jesus

Started by joy sung in Eschatology Mar 22, 2015. 0 Replies

The End of the Old Covenat

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll Jan 21, 2015. 60 Replies

© 2017   Created by Tim Martin.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service