O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Hi everybody, a new member with the same old questions here. I have been aware of preterism for a couple of years now and though I find much of it appealing I however have challenges with primarily 2 issues, one being the resurrection and the other being the end of the old covenant. These may even be the same question. Searching for discussions about these issues has led me here, Im sure it will be beneficial, so just bear with me guy.
How is 1 Cor 15:12-13 " Now if Christ is preached that he hath been raised from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither hath Christ been raised" to be understood
I have read every reply. the 'Tanakh' is a reference to the Hebrew... Old Testament.
I make 'no sense' to you because you are stuck in the Judaizer state of mind.
We are NOT living in the timeline of the old or new Testament... we are living in the timeline past the book of Revelation and past the 'maps'..... Revelation has All been Fulfilled.
What Covenant are we under to you?
Do you follow the Ten Commandments of Moses or the Two Commandment of Jesus?
The New Covenant Age (That has no End) could never come into its' Fullness until The Blessings And Curses as laid out in The Law of Moses have happened. That Judgment Did Not Happen when Jesus was on The Cross and Arose on the Third day from The Grave (three Full Days and Three Full Nights in the Tomb). That 'Judgment' (on The People, The Place and on The Law of Moses) happening defacto, is not in Any of the Books of the OT or NT... So, That Judgment had to happen AFTER the Book of Revelation. Revelation describes The Judgment to happen in the Future of the Writing of Revelation. But Revelation states that the Judgment was Soon (Soon after the writing of Revelation) to happen and to NOT Close Up The Book....
Do you understand that? I thought and think that you do not perceive or comprehend it.
You have ears, but can not hear, you have eyes, but can not see.
Though you are a preterist (as I am), I do not condone nor sympathize with your treatment of Julia. You have read into her comments things she has not said. You do not seek to convince, but to bludgeon with judgment.
Julia, thank you for your comments. I appreciate them and I see no error in what you have written. Blessings.
You are very correct Doug,
Hello Doug, my tone at the time is course and short
I have 'read' a lot into her comments. I have dealt with Messianic Jews before and they always use one name and post in collaboration as a group. Is her/their first post drastically different from her/their second? I apologize at this point of the conversation for nothing.
'Seeing' error or not seeing error is from the paradigm that one is at that time standing in. We are all in different paradigms and no one know the full knowledge of God
Julia,You show yourself to not know Scripture of the Transition from Moses to Christ.
James (works...) was a Jew and Fully under the Mosaic Law + Jesus (you have no concept of that do you?). The Hebrew writer in the book of Hebrews (written after The Cross) and Written to HEBRWEWS, states that as Long as The Tempe Stood it had full standing. That means that All of the Jews/Israelites must follow that Whole Law or none of it at all (works...) NO Gentile was ever 'under The Law', but 'under a law unto themselves.. And the Apostle Paul (Apostle to the Gentiles) states that the Jews/Israel could not Keep The Law and that He (Paul) would not allow the Judaizes to 'come in' and make the Gentiles follow Moses. Paul knew that the End of the Mosaic Age was very soon (it was in full force at that time for Jews/Israelites) come to an End.
Peter was the Apostle to the Jews (Moses + Jesus, unto the End of Moses) and Paul unto the Gentiles (only Jesus)
Blessings to you, Julia.
Keep Moses where Moses should be and Christ where Christ should be.
(and now you can see why I have the user name that I do. I do not want to make anything personal, but one never knows the hearts of man on these boards. Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? )
Its great to hear from you and for your interest in this topic. Its almost six years and I still don't believe the answers that were provided but I have come a long way and understand the issue much better. So much that sometimes I think in 30 years from now I would not be surprised if I were a full aka hyper preterist lol.
However we all take time out of busy schedules to attend to blogs and over time we develop prejudice and tend not to treat each other honestly or well, though sometimes it is because experience has taught us better.
I am very willing to share with you my walk with preterism and how my understanding has evolved however I can see you believe very differently from how I read the scriptures and you seem to be resolute and unmovable on your convictions. While we must all be convinced about what we believe sometimes having such positions makes dialogue with alternative positions futile and frustrating.
So, my question to you is this, are you genuinely open and trying to understand the answers that have been put forth or do you intend on showing the error in the teaching? Are you willing to learn new things and abandon what you already believe or do you seek to convert others to your beliefs?
Proper discussion can only be held if both parties are willing to listen, learn and change. And I will expect you to change a lot about what you believe, thus if you are apriori unwilling to change the discussion will be futile but if you are willing to change your beliefs then I can take time to share with you my understanding. I know this comes a bit hard but like I said, with time we build prejudice with internet discussions and just need to make sure its worth the time.
Thank you for the honesty and being forthright that you are not open to changing your beliefs, I really appreciate that since others can take you for a ride under the pretext of being seekers.
I am however saddened that I do not feel the gentleness, love or meekness of the Spirit in your posts. Further, with the attitude you have responded I really wonder if you will be able to obtain an audience from someone such that you will eventually open their eyes to the truth you have.
That said, all the best in you walk with Christ but I leave you with this: most of what you believe about what you have posted so far is not true!
Thanks for your honestly in admitting after 6 years you still haven't figured out,learned or tried to learn the difference between Full vs Hyperpreterism.
Maybe give the link a quick read and learn something.
You admitted to Julia that you've spent six years and still don't have understanding...why would she want to interact with you?
On a more important question...how have you and your family been affected by "Cyclone Idai"?
Hope and pray you and your family are all safe.
Thanks for reminding me of what hyperpreterism is. It's weird, but of course, there is weirdness everywhere!
You might enjoy David Curtis's two recent messages.
Dangers within Preterism: What's More Important? Part 1&2.
" Let's look at some of the false doctrines that are gathering under the umbrella of Preterism"
Like you said "a lot of weirdness"
This is why we don't allow the promotion of theses beliefs here.
Can be watched at his youtube channel and his website. The website has the text, which is kinda nice to read while you listen.
Hello John, Did Julia leave?
The hardest thing for one to do is to unlearn what one thought to be Truth.
A closed mind is a sad thing. And we all have closed minds, so many times.
Doug, I know that you are/were upset with me about my tone with Julia and I am sorry and sad about that. I have no patience with 'Messianic "Torah" Jews', and with 'Julia' ---'trying' to quote' from a Jewish Bible, she sounded as one to me for a while. If she wants to 'quote' from a Jewish Bible then she needs to fully or as close as possible understand what 'Jewish "Torah" Christians' believe.
Well, I thought she was a person who was seeking for some truth. It turns out, she wasn't. But I have always been of the opinion that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I see no reason to attack someone who is truly looking. It appeared she is that kind of person, but has since said she isn't willing to change.
I used to be like that, and if someone had attacked me in a group I was looking at, I would have shut down and for sure would not have been able to hear anything else except an "attitude"
All that said, I was attempting to let her know that if she wanted a "friend" in our group, I was willing to engage as a friend and fellow brother in Christ. But, she never responded to my kindnesses. I guess that shows what she really wanted.
I am not upset with you, though I still think it could have been handled with a little more "honey". But, you did see through her facade. I guess I am not the kind of person who picks up on other's "vibes". My wife says I am naive....