Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

How were other nations judged at the parousia? It easy to see how Jerusalem was judged, what of other nations?


In particular 2 Thes 1:7 talks about those who troubled the Thessalonians being punished. In first Thessalonians Paul says it was their countrymen (not Jews) who troubled them. How then were they given tribulation at the parousia and how were the Thessalonians given rest?

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Good morning,

"The nations" is an Old Covenant Scriptural term. It refers to the Jews and Israelites, respectively.

There was only one nation until the Israelites split into 2 Kingdoms. Once the holy people split, there became 2 nations, i.e. the Northern and Southern tribes. The 2 Southern tribes of Judea (called Jews) and the 10 Northern tribes of Israel (called the house of Israel) are the focal point of redemptive history.

When the 10 Northern tribes left Israel, they dispersed among the pagan nations and became inculcated with their doctrines and myths. They commingled God's Law covenant with pagan beliefs. In fact, they became so immersed in the pagan cultures that they were called "gentiles" (goyim) in the Old Covenant Scriptures.

Ezekiel 36-37 is critical to a proper understanding of these "nations" being called back in as children. Hosea tells this story alongside Ezekiel 36-37. The prodigal son is the New Covenant Scripture analogy of this fulfillment.

During the last days, the Jews (2 Southern tribes - who were already in Jerusalem) saw the influx of the "goyim" (10 Northern tribes) during the festivities. In this way, the whole "house of Israel" (all the nations) began to undergo God's covenant judgment.

Part and parcel of this reality was the non Israelite Gentiles (pagans) coming to faith in God; a part of redemptive history also. Although covenant judgment had nothing to do with them.

Dustin...

Hello Dustin. You have a good understanding of the 'House of Israel; and the 'House of Judah' split. But also consider that each 'Tribe' (12) was also 'a' nation. Ephraim and Manasseh had The 'Birthright' and I have never found in Scripture where they lost it. Yes, they and the Northern Tribes were 'swept' away and became 'as' Gentiles. But the Covenantal Promises were given to the 'Whole House' of Israel. You called the Northern 'lost' House as 'goyim'. in the Strongs Concordance, the term for 'Gentiles' also can be applied to descendants of Abraham. When we look at Revelation and the 144,000. Each 'tribe' brought into the 'New Covenant' 12,000. But the tribe of Dan, who completely lost any transition covenantal rights because of the evilness of the tribe. Joseph was given a double portion for his sons, Ephraim (the younger son, but leader tribes of the Northern House of Israel) and Manasseh, the older son, but who came in second in the Blessing line).

In referring to 2 Thess. 1-7, those, I believe were 'Messianic Jews', who were trying to make the Thess. keep the whole Law + Jesus Christ. 'Gentiles' and the 'lost' ten Northern tribes need not and could not come under 'the Law of Moses' as it was the Law of Death. Messianic Jews had to keep the Whole Law (or none at all) until Heaven and Earth passed away, and as long as the Temple stood, it had Standing for the House of Judah.

Les,

I agree. And that was my point regarding the whole house of Israel (2 tribes, respectively) in that they were all nations. Apparently I didn't convey it well enough.

Be that as it may, the covenant judgment and the "nations" has to do with the whole house of Israel - not the non Israelite Gentiles.

Dustin...

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