Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

John 11:25-26  Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

What did Jesus mean here? I know He wasnt teaching physical immortality but cannot figure out what He was saying.

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Hello Boyardee.

I believe it to be a pre and post resurrection answer.

“I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”

The resurrection was promised to Israel, not me. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc., all those of Israel who’s hope was in the coming of the Messiah. They would die and go to the grave (Sheol) and stay their until the time of the resurrection, and live. Not physically, but they would be released from their sleep in the grave.

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

The 2nd part would be for those who come after the resurrection. Who ever lives and believes in Jesus (after the hoped for resurrection) would have “life”. Immediately. Now. If we now live in Christ, there is no need for us to be resurrected. Again, not physical, but covenantally.

I'm sure someone else here can be more detailed than I can, but at least that is my somewhat limited understanding.

Steve

Thanks Steve for the thoughts.

For clarity are you reading the first portion as follows:

“I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were [covenentally] dead, yet shall he [covenentally] live:”

or you are reading it thus:

“I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were [physically] dead, yet shall he [covenentally] live:”

Im trying to understand your reference to Sheol.

As a side question, was anyone (prior AD70) covenentally alive or since Adam everyone was dead?

Boyardee,

Steve is correct. The resurrection is a phrase and event ascribed to Israel alone.

Daniel, in discussing "the resurrection" at the time of the end said:

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

This was to happen when the "power of the holy people was shattered."

Who were the holy people? Israel.

What was the "power" of the holy people? The Law.

Paul gives clarity on this in 1 Corinthians 15:

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

The power of sin, i.e. the Law, was nullified judicially at the cross. Yet the remnants of that covenant - the temple, the Priests, etc, was still active and being wielded against the 1st century saints by the Judaizers and Pharisees. But it was coming to an end. The writer of Hebrews in juxtaposing the 2 covenants says:

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The first one was obsolete (judicially), yet was still soon to disappear in AD70.

To me, and I tend to try and simplify things, it comes down to the question - what is death? Death was covenant separation from God. In order to be separated from covenant, you have to be IN covenant. Non Israelite Gentiles were never IN covenant. They were not the holy people. So death is a term related to Israel alone; just as resurrection is a term related to Israel alone.

Just my .02 cents.

Dustin...

Thanks Dustin

The point I am not clear is whether Jesus referes to physical death or covenantal death i.e. which death is He referring to in verse 25 "... though he were dead"

Im also having difficulty with various version as to what exactly Jesus said.

Was it possible for someone to believe in Jesus yet be covenantally dead?

Was anyone (prior AD70) covenentally alive or since Adam everyone was dead?

Verse 25 is speaking to a person dying biologically. Those they die biologically, yet they will still live.

Thanks guys, it very clear now.

I am however still curious as to whether anyone could be deemed covenantally alive before AD70

e.g. before Israel sin, the sin leading to exile, were they covenantally alive?

Boyardee,

No one was alive covenantally. All (Israel) had died in the Adamic body. But their transgressions were passed over via the sacrifices.

Dustin...

No one was alive covenantally. All (Israel) had died in the Adamic body. But their transgressions were passed over via the sacrifices.

How can we differentiate life within Canaan against the exile.

I considered going into exile as Israel's death from which they needed to return i.e. resurrection.

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