Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Michael Miano, Jeff Vaughn, and Tim Martin Follow Up on Ham/Nye Debate

Just thought I should pass this on.

Michael Miano spent two shows following up on the Ken Ham vs. Bill Nye debate.

Jeff and Tim offer a biblical alternative to Ken Ham's "creation model" composed of young-earth creationism and a global flood in Noah's day. Tucked into the discussion are some recent observations related to the Covenant Creation model. 

Here is the link:

http://mianogonewild.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/making-sense-of-the-creation-account/

I look forward to any comments or suggestions.

Blessings,

Tim Martin

Views: 670

Comment by davo on February 19, 2014 at 12:54am

Norm: Doesn’t mean that more theories won’t develop out of these insights because people are constantly trying to figure out the implications of what they see, touch and feel.

 

I guess I sometimes wonder at the so-called veracity of these so-called “insights” when they are put across as being ‘hard cold facts’ i.e., “the truth” and yet for example 100 years ago there were 100 scientific laws of fact, which in their day were “the truth” and anyone not accepting them were considered a little dull at best or suspect at worse, but since then all in the face of progress have been debunked.

 

I see science as progressive and IMO none too many in reaction to religion [a natural outcome] have raised the flag of science against it and become as blind in their faith in it as those they accuse accordingly. To believe that complex living things created themselves, out of nothing, by accident, is in itself scientifically irrational and unsupportable.

Comment by Eohn Rhodes on February 19, 2014 at 8:29am

Norm,

 Only two things stopping me from believing in Evo. alone as the mother of all living: the fossil record and the laboratory.

The obvious and unexplainable record in the stratta is that of abrupt appearances and transitions.

The most sited observable evolution is contained within the 'species' called bacteria.

Evolution relies on unseen and unverifiable extrapolations in order to cross boundaries between species.

open my eyes to the other side, please

Eohn

Comment by Norm on February 19, 2014 at 10:18am
Davo,

Appreciate the observation that Science is continually evolving. :) However that growth is growing stronger regarding the reality of the evolutionary process not lessening. Just because concepts change and need to be updated and improved is not a valid reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I’m also not framing science against religion as I understand the Bible in its intended purpose so that’s a non sequitur from my point of view. Doesn’t mean it isn’t valid for some though. Also I’m not postulating that living things created themselves out of material nothingness of their own accord. I believe this process points to the hand of our Creator God whom I assume you would agree has the capability to use the dynamics found in this Universe to produce life. That premise is another non sequitur IMHO as I believe it inadvertently ties the hands of Gods sovereign capability. Now if you are making your arguments against materialistic and atheistic scientist who don’t see the hand of a Creator your arguments carry more weight but IMO there is plenty of room for the Hand of God in the process. Where God has enabled the process through natural evolutionary processes I don’t see why that can’t be recognized as the Hand of God. Evolution appears to be a natural process that God has enabled through His providence.

Blessings
Norm
Comment by Norm on February 19, 2014 at 10:34am
Eohn,

Perhaps you should start out as a "partial Evolutionist" instead of a "full" evo. ;)

Norm
Comment by Eohn Rhodes on February 19, 2014 at 10:42am
Norm,
I did start as a full preterist but what does a partial evolutionist believe? Or are their as many species as partial preterists and if you put them all together do you get full evolution?

Eohn
Comment by Norm on February 19, 2014 at 11:05am
Eohn,

A partial is one that accepts the level of evolution that one can get their mind around.
As I have been stating here there is plenty of evolution regarding human evolution that is very well developed and doesn't ask you to make as difficult jumps in your present worldview. Bite off small chunks and chew on that for a while instead of trying to swallow the whale in one bite.

This investigation takes time and studying, there is no short cut. Most people often are not in a position to make a thorough study because life itself gets in the way. You just don't roll out of bed and declare yourself an evolutionist.

Blessing
Norm
Comment by John on February 20, 2014 at 12:06am

"Many kinds of evidence have contributed to scientific understanding of biological evolution. Some of this evidence — such as the fossils of long-extinct animals and the geographical distribution of species — was familiar to scientists in the 19th century or earlier. Other forms of evidence — such as comparisons of DNA sequences — became available only in the 20th and 21st centuries.

The evidence for evolution comes not just from the biological sciences but also from both historical and modern research in anthropology, astrophysics, chemistry, geology, physics, mathematics, and other scientific disciplines, including the behavioral and social sciences. Astrophysics and geology have demonstrated that the Earth is old enough for biological evolution to have resulted in the species seen today. Physics and chemistry have led to dating methods that have established the timing of key evolutionary events. Studies of other species have revealed not only the physical but also the behavioral continuities among species. Anthropology has provided new insights into human origins and the interactions between biology and cultural factors in shaping human behaviors and social systems.

As in every active area of science, many questions remain unanswered. Biologists continue to study the evolutionary relationships among organisms,"

SOURCE "Science, Evolution, and Creationism ( 2008 )

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find it rather unbelievable that so many scientist from so many different disciplines have for over 150 years or more conspired and created the greatest hoax of all time in trying to prove evolution.

 

Of course this doesn’t make it true but you really need to wonder about it. If the vast majority of scientist believe in evolution I think it adds a great amount of weight in its favor. These are the same folks that have created cures for many illness and many other inventions that have made our lives better.

Again, this is just how I see things.

John

Comment by Eohn Rhodes on February 20, 2014 at 2:11am
John
Thanks for the link. I certainly don't want to keep believing the sun travels around the earth. The weight of the masses is considerable with scientists as well as futurists. I can clearly see the falacy with the majority of futurists who believe and are as we speak unintentionally and intentionally pulling off the biggest hoax in history; as two strange bedfellows with different motives for world conquest; Judaizers and futurists. It's Christianity that has given us the greatest advances in society. At the same time scientists undoubtably also have a world of their own to rule. People are very creative when it comes to maneuvering to places of power. Norm says I can't will my self into believing evolution because it takes so long. I have to change a little at a time. I go to church with a microbiologist professor who says the same thing and his position at the university depends on it. I consider myself to be open minded. Scientists eventually gave up some of their accepted hoaxes as they became obvious. I will look into your link as I have been with many of the scientific links. I hope conversation goes on.
Eohn
Comment by Internet_Troll on February 20, 2014 at 11:29am

Norm,

I think people should take more time to digest these your words:

Yes we can talk about the issues that we don’t have good answers for but why avoid the issues that we do have answers for. Let’s work through those implications first and then we might be better prepared to discuss the unanswerable issues at some point someday. 

Now if you are making your arguments against materialistic and atheistic scientist who don’t see the hand of a Creator your arguments carry more weight

there is plenty of evolution regarding human evolution that is very well developed and doesn't ask you to make as difficult jumps in your present worldview. Bite off small chunks and chew on that for a while instead of trying to swallow the whale in one bite.

And perhaps people could and will hear you better if you start by acknowledging some of evolutionary theories failures and inadequacies. I think the more you agree with people on evolutionary theory's failures, the easier for them to hear your points, else they will throw away the baby with the bath water.

I am curios though, if Genesis doesnt tell us about the physical creation, does the Bible EVER tell us that God created the physical world?

Comment by Eohn Rhodes on February 20, 2014 at 11:39am
I accept the evolution we all see bit there is no baby.

Comment

You need to be a member of Deathisdefeated to add comments!

Join Deathisdefeated

Events

Forum

Adam as Israel

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll Nov 5. 9 Replies

The parousia and judgment of nations

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Joseph Rehby Jul 6. 16 Replies

Preterist Networking

Started by Judy Peterson in Prayer Requests. Last reply by John Aug 8, 2016. 17 Replies

The 10 Tribes of Israel

Started by Internet_Troll in Questions and Best Answers We Can Give!. Last reply by Internet_Troll May 22, 2016. 9 Replies

Online Teaching Elders

Started by Eohn Rhodes in Eschatology. Last reply by Doug Dec 22, 2015. 4 Replies

Who is the abomination of desolation ?

Started by Stairway To Heaven in Eschatology. Last reply by Brother Les Dec 11, 2015. 3 Replies

Divine council

Started by Sharon Q in Eschatology. Last reply by Sharon Q Oct 3, 2015. 5 Replies

Marriage and Divorce Motif Between God and Israel

Started by Andrew Reish in Eschatology. Last reply by Brother Les Jul 5, 2015. 5 Replies

Millennium

Started by Mark Baker in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll May 4, 2015. 48 Replies

Fulfilled prophecies of Jesus

Started by joy sung in Eschatology Mar 22, 2015. 0 Replies

The End of the Old Covenat

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll Jan 21, 2015. 60 Replies

© 2017   Created by Tim Martin.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service