Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

" And the sea gave up the dead which were in it..."

How many times in the past has the content of this verse been recited at the ship's railing as the remains of a crew member slid off the end of a board into the waves below?  With all due respect to the captains reciting the burial service over the dead, this verse encompasses far more than appears on the surface.  

Spoiler alert:  The verses covered below will be pointing out a connection to a biological resurrection of the house of Israel in 70 AD.

One of the members of our bible study coming from your standard futurist background has bemoaned the loss of an ocean in the New Earth as she has understood it.  "I love the ocean", she says "and I can't conceive of an ideal world that doesn't have this in it anymore."  Revelation 21:1, as I tried to explain to her, isn't dealing with beaches, oceanography, seaweed, etc., at all.   Rather, it is just one more metaphor in the long list of symbols that Revelation uses to represent other realities - one more indication of the natural Hebraic character of the book.  We know that there is an angelic interpretation in Rev. 17:15 of the waters that the whore sits upon as "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."  In the same manner, it is not unheard of in scripture for the sea to be equated with the Gentile nations.  Isaiah 60:5 is one direct comparison.  Zechariah 10:ll is another.  Luke 21:25 is a New Testament reference with the same interpretation;  "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars: and upon the earth DISTRESS OF NATIONS, with perplexity; (i.e.) the SEA and THE WAVES roaring;"   Likewise, the beast rising out of the sea in Rev. 13:1 is understood to have it's origin from a Gentile nation.

So when I read in Rev. 21:1 that in the new heaven and the new earth (established in 70 AD as I believe) there will be no more sea, I can understand that on a spiritual level, God is looking at the globe as a homogeneous whole, without a line of demarcation between Jew and Gentile.  The Gentile classification has been erased; hence, "...no more sea."

 

With this idea in mind, other references in Revelation where the sea is mentioned also come up for consideration as to whether the ocean itself or the Gentile nations are under discussion.  Rev. 20:13 is just such a verse.  The context is the great white throne judgement with the dead being judged out of the things written in the books.  My understanding of the sea giving up the dead which were in it is as follows:  those from the whole house of Israel who have died over the centuries are gathered from every Gentile nation in which they had perished during the various dispersions, to stand before God and be judged in the body.  Think of all the OT promises to Israel to gather them from other nations and plant them in their own land.  Not all, but many of them I believe are a prediction of what happens in this verse.  Their own land ultimately is the heavenly Canaan that Abraham anticipated. 

This also has ramifications for understanding who the recipients of the the vial judgments are in Rev. 16.  These appear to be listed in chronological order, with the sea (or Gentile nations) receiving the second one.   Just as an aside, the seventh vial poured out into the air is connected with "the prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2.  The timing tallies perfectly with the unleashing of demonic forces in the last 5-month period of Jerusalem's siege.  

Here are a couple other references that I believe also point to a bodily Israelite resurrection in 70 AD.

In Matthew 19:28 (and Luke 22:29-30), Jesus addresses Peter in answer to his question of what reward they would receive in the kingdom of heaven for following him faithfully.  "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, IN THE REGENERATION, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL."  This is a duplicate of the vision that John sees in Rev. 20:4.  "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:..."  One would have to conclude that all the disciples would die before 70 AD for this to be true.  Is that such a stretch?  Judas, of course, was replaced providentially by Matthias in Acts, but if you want to claim that John had not died by that 70 AD date, why could you not substitute Paul in his position, since Paul was considered the last of the apostles?  That still makes 12, either way you look at it.  

This helps to give a true interpretation of the parable that immediately follows Jesus' promise of 12 thrones to his disciples; the parable of the householder hiring laborers at different times through the day, all for the same wage of a penny.  "The last shall be first, and the first shall be last:..." is the summation of the message.    In the paradigm of a 70 AD Israelite resurrection, the "last" ones would be the last ones hired at the eleventh hour to labor in the vineyard of Israel.  In other words, the 12 disciples.  The "first" would be the first ones hired to work in the vineyard, such as the example of the prophets from the OT who bore the heat of the day long before Christ's arrival on the scene.  Yet the disciples are the ones on thrones ruling over the 12 tribes instead of any others such as the faithful prophets.  If God wants the last to take precedence over the first, He claims that as His prerogative.  The wage of a resurrected body is the same for all concerned, though.  

The final quote I have time to add is the Luke 2:34 prophecy of Simeon in the temple, holding the newborn Christ in his arms.  "Lo, this child is set for the fall and rising up of many in Israel, and for a sign spoken against;...."  The interpretations are as varied as the number of commentaries you pick up, but I would like to point out how well it meshes with the scenario of the "fall" of Jerusalem and "the rising up" as the resurrection of many in Israel before the end of the Jerusalem siege in 70 AD.

Just offering these thoughts for consideration to see if it provokes any responses, pro or con.

  

Views: 129

Comment by Brother Les on January 30, 2014 at 10:53pm

You are pointing out the many things in Revelation that were fulfilled in AD70. In reality all of Revelation has been fulfilled....this includes Death and Hell/sheol being thrown into The Lake of Fire.

You touch on the point of verses that point to the bodily Israelite resurrection. This body is the bride of Christ, The Church. He is the Head and we (Israel/Sons of God) are The Body, those who are in the flesh and those who are in the Spiritual realm. The House of Israel/Ephraim had The Birthright, not Judah. Judah had the kingship until Shiloh come. The House of Israel were sifted to The Nations and became as Gentiles. When Shiloh came, the sea gave up these dead ones to be born again unto Life. The nationalistic Mosaic Temple Cultus Israel is no more, the born again Israel is the Church of Christ.

You point to the Twelve tribes of Israel. Look up the verses in Revelation that state the 'Twelve' tribes. One of the 'originals' is missing..... and another have been added in it's place. Do you know why? A good answer is found in David Chiltons book, "These be the days of Vengeance".  It can be found and read online.

Comment by Brian Maxwell on February 14, 2014 at 1:36pm

Interesting stuff.  However, we know from the entirety of scripture that the "nature" of the resurrection is *not* biological.  And while the resurrection had everything to do with Israel, it had to do with them being "brought into the promised land" (the heavenly land).  And that is only fulfilled in Christ and the Church.  The symbolism of the 12 tribes ruling over the house of Israel is just that, symbolism.  It's no different than the symbolism we see in Rev 21 in the heavenly temple, with many references to the 12 tribes AND 12 apostles.  It's a spiritual temple.  It was a spiritual resurrection.  

Comment

You need to be a member of Deathisdefeated to add comments!

Join Deathisdefeated

Events

Forum

Isaiah 2:2-4 Used to refute preterism

Started by Steve G. in Eschatology. Last reply by Patricia Watkins Aug 13. 1 Reply

This Site Active?

Started by Doug in Eschatology. Last reply by Patricia Watkins Jul 29. 28 Replies

Gen 1 vs Isa 51

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll May 3. 4 Replies

Adam as Israel

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll Nov 5, 2017. 9 Replies

Though he dies yet shall he live

Started by Internet_Troll in Questions and Best Answers We Can Give!. Last reply by Internet_Troll Apr 25, 2017. 8 Replies

The parousia and judgment of nations

Started by Internet_Troll in Eschatology. Last reply by Joseph Rehby Jul 6, 2017. 16 Replies

Preterist Networking

Started by Judy Peterson in Prayer Requests. Last reply by Judy Peterson Apr 8. 21 Replies

The 10 Tribes of Israel

Started by Internet_Troll in Questions and Best Answers We Can Give!. Last reply by Judith Ann Maness Aug 4. 10 Replies

Online Teaching Elders

Started by Eohn Rhodes in Eschatology. Last reply by Doug Dec 22, 2015. 4 Replies

Who is the abomination of desolation ?

Started by Stairway To Heaven in Eschatology. Last reply by Brother Les Dec 11, 2015. 3 Replies

Divine council

Started by Sharon Q in Eschatology. Last reply by Sharon Q Oct 3, 2015. 5 Replies

Marriage and Divorce Motif Between God and Israel

Started by Andrew Reish in Eschatology. Last reply by Brother Les Jul 5, 2015. 5 Replies

Millennium

Started by Mark Baker in Eschatology. Last reply by Internet_Troll May 4, 2015. 48 Replies

Fulfilled prophecies of Jesus

Started by joy sung in Eschatology Mar 22, 2015. 0 Replies

© 2018   Created by Tim Martin.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service