Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Between Babel and Beast: America and Empires in Biblical Perspective by Peter Leithart

Just thought I should bring this new book to everyone's attention:

Between Babel and Beast by Peter Leithart

I sometimes drew different conclusions than Leithart does at key points. However, this book contains some of the most insightful analysis and detail that I have seen in quite some time. Get it. Read it. Highly recommended!

Click on the above link. I posted a few citations to show you what I mean.

Blessings,

Tim Martin

www.BeyondCreationScience.com

Views: 77

Comment by davo on January 23, 2013 at 9:22am

Leithart has some seriously interesting thoughts... might be one for the reading list.

Comment by Tim Martin on January 23, 2013 at 9:34am

Davo,

I think you'll be stimulated. You won't agree with him on points... I didn't either.

He did admit in his Introduction that he will likely offend every one who reads the whole book. I like that kind of admission up front.

Tim Martin

Comment by Mike Sullivan on January 28, 2013 at 2:31pm

I liked what I read of this book on Tim's site.  My meditations - In Revelation there is no more sea in the NC because: 

1) the New Israel/Jerusalem is spiritual and is therefore not subject to the "times of the Gentiles" taken them captive from a literal land etc..., and...

2)  Under the NC there is no longer this Jew (land) Gentile (sea/islands) distinction - only being in Christ (the New Creation) or being outside of Christ (the New Creation).  

My question for Tim is - would he take what Peter L. says of the call of Abram and the creation of the land (God's people) emerging from the sea (Gentiles) as what is described for us in Gen. 1-3?  

When CC's say that Gen. 1-3 is the beginning of the OC creation as Rev. 21:1 is the end of it, is this the beginning of history in the "heavens and earth" of God reveling Himself in Promised Land?  Do we have 3 beginnings to the OC age(s):

a.  Adam (the first covenant man in this local land) - a creation and separation of land and seas or creation of the covenantal heavens and earth.

b.  The call and separation of Abram - separation of land and sea and creation of another OC age?

c.  The call of Israel out from Egypt - separation of land and sea and another planting of the OC age of a heavens and earth? 

 

 

Comment by Tim Martin on January 28, 2013 at 2:56pm

Mike,


I agree that Leithart misused the Sea imagery in his final quote. That is the result of his residual futurism.

I go with your #2 above.

As to your other questions, I recently did a sermon series based on the Days of creation in Genesis 1. You can see my full explanation here:

http://www.truthinliving.org/SerCov.php

The rest of your questions seem to be based on a multiple-heavens-and-earths view of the Old Testament. This is a concept that I, along with most CC advocates, reject. If you want to understand why, please go through the material archived here:

http://beyondcreationscience.com/index.php?pr=C_Creation_in_2_Pet_3

Blessings,

Tim Martin

Comment by John on January 28, 2013 at 4:28pm

I would be one of those that reject "multiple-heavens-and-earths view of the Old Testament"

Wasn't that the Frost view? And we saw what it did for him.

Anyhow I like how Richard Pratt Jr. wrote here and I think sums it up pretty good.

"Biblical covenants emphasized what was needed at specific stages of God’s kingdom by furthering the principles of previous covenants. God started with Adam to reveal His own kingship, the role of humanity, and the destiny He had planned for the earth (Gen. 1–3). These principles were then carried forward as God promised stability in nature for humanity’s service in Noah’s covenant (Gen. 6, 9). God enhanced His previous covenants by promising that Abraham’s descendants would become a great empire and spread God’s blessings to all other nations (Gen. 15, 17). God built on these covenants by blessing Israel with His law in the days of Moses (Ex. 19–24). Every previous covenant was taken to new heights as God established David’s dynasty and promised that one of his sons would rule in righteousness over Israel and over the entire world (Pss. 72; 89; 132). All Old Testament covenants were then furthered and fulfilled in Christ (Jer. 31:312Cor. 1:19–20). As the great son of David, His life, death, resurrection, ascension, and return eternally secure the transformation of the entire earth into God’s glorious kingdom."

In this article  by John M. Frame he mentions work by  Meredith G. Kline that I think we have looked at before..

"His view is that “covenant” in Scripture often refers to a specific literary form common in the ancient near east, of which a number of extra-biblical examples (especially from the Hittite culture) are extant. Covenants between Yahweh and Israel, says Kline, are most closely analogous to the Hittite “suzerainty treaties” of the second milennium, B. C. These are treaties between a great king and a lesser king, and they have a fairly standard form consisting of the following elements"

Scriptures in bold added by me (JJS).

A. Name of the Great King 

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

B. Historical Prologue

Gen 1:31  And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. 

C. Stipulations (Laws)

1. Exclusive loyalty (=love)

2. Specific requirements

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 

D. Sanctions (Blessings and Curses)

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

E. Administration

Gen 2:19 Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

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