Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

First the Natural then the Spiritual

First the natural what? Then the spiritual what? We hear a lot about type/anti-type, but what about Scripture?

It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 1 Cor. 15:44-46

First the natural body, then the spiritual body.

The body in 1 Cor. 15 is the covenant body, the corporate body. The natural body is the old covenant body starting with Adam. The spiritual body is the church starting with the last Adam, Christ.

Views: 633

Comment by Tami on August 6, 2010 at 1:45pm
It cannot be overstated just how grotesquely folks who use "first the natural then the spiritual" to prove a material creation in Genesis 1 are wresting this context.
Comment by JL Vaughn on August 6, 2010 at 3:34pm
Ed,

I guess this isn't the first time you've disagreed with a coauthor.

Blessings,

Jeff
Comment by JL Vaughn on August 6, 2010 at 3:55pm
Hope it goes well.
Comment by Tami on August 6, 2010 at 5:23pm
Ed is livin dangerously. ;)
Comment by Tim Martin on August 6, 2010 at 6:42pm
What they really mean is "first the material, then the spiritual."

The only problem is that Paul clearly doesn't work within that dichotomy. Jesus is the spiritual man. Then Paul goes right ahead and calls some of his audience spiritual. "You are spiritual." That is where the definitions break down. Paul was writing to living, breathing, physical human beings.

Tim Martin
Comment by MoGrace2u on August 6, 2010 at 10:56pm
Living breathing physical human beings into whom the seed of God's word had already been sown - they are not the subject here. But in speaking of how the dead were to be raised, Paul is clear that what is to be raised is that which had first died. And the seed that is sown in a natural earthly body is the soul, therefore it is the soul that needs to be raised to life and given a new heavenly body. Nothing corporate is being discussed about the body that died - nor about the seed. It is the living soul of the natural man that dies and needs to be raised and made into the image of the heavenly Christ.
Comment by Micah Martin on August 6, 2010 at 11:32pm
MoGrace2u,

Is that along the lines of the view John Noe spoke about in his lecture series?
Comment by MoGrace2u on August 7, 2010 at 9:30am
I don't know about Noe, I was looking at it from how Paul was preaching it to the Corinthians. The covenant body idea seems not to see that this is about the seed that is sown in the body. It is that seed that must first die before it is quickened. And that is why the natural corruptible body which is flesh and blood and houses the mortal soul, is not what is raised at all. Rather it is the living soul of the first Adam which dies, that is raised and quickened to life and puts on an incorruptible immortal heavenly body made in the image of Christ. Whatever this body looks like or is made from is the same substance that the Father used to prepare the body He made for Jesus. That body was never defiled by sin or the corruption of death and His life-giving Spirit could return to it and ascend into heaven.

We are told that the creation of Adam from the dust prefigured the One to come - Rom 5:14. A body thou hast prepared for me - Heb 10:5 quoting Ps 40:6-8

2 Cor 5:1 - For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Cor 5:2 - For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Cor 5:3 - If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

So in Paul's discussion of the natural body of man (living soul) - the one that was not first indwelt by the Spirit, we find how the natural man who dies, is raised to life and given a new spiritual body. While the change that comes upon us in the moment of death takes place in a mere twinkling of the eye. The gospel hope of the spiritual man who has received the life of Christ is not the same as the OC hope where the law of sin and death was reigning. Christ has set us free from that law - which sting of death was sin and which strength of sin was law - no more sin and no more law to govern the soul made alive in Christ in death.

John 11:25 - Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 - And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Heb 13:5 - Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

This is the gospel hope that the Corinthians believed, they just didn't understand how that was going to be given to those who were waiting in death, because of the rumors they heard from those Judaizing Sadducees who said the dead did not rise. Acts 18 tells us that Corinth was filled with Jews who had fled Rome, and it was in the synagogues that both Jews and Greeks heard Paul's gospel.
Comment by JL Vaughn on August 7, 2010 at 9:50am
Robin,

Do you noticed that every time Paul tells the Corinthians about the resurrection, he reminds them of Adam hiding because he was naked?

Any thoughts on why?
Comment by jjkratt on August 7, 2010 at 11:18am
Here's a thought. Man doesn't have a soul, he is a soul. You cannot find the doctrine of a "soul" living within a man in the Bible anywhere, but I can provide a hundred passages in both Hebrew and Greek scriptures that show that "soul" was mortal man, not an immortal part of man. The doctrine of an immaterial, immortal part of man called "the soul" came not from God but from the pagans, first in Egypt then with the Greek philosophers, then brought into the church around the second and third centuries. I document all this in my first lesson at the Ardmore Preterist Pilgrimage this year.

Therefore, this being true (and it is undoubtedly true), the seed is not the soul of man within him. Plus, you've got another problem with that view, and that is that Paul said the seed is planted first then it dies. So Robin, how do you plant a soul in the earth and have it die afterward?

Jerel

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