Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

If Resurrection Means "Stand Again," Where was the First Standing?

On the radio program Two Guys and a Bible, with about 35 min. to go, William Bell said something quite interesting and more profound than he realized.

Earlier, William had said that Paul got his doctrine from the law and the prophets. Mike had asked, what text of the law Paul had used to teach the resurrection. William said nothing specific but mentioned Adam who is prominent in 1 Cor. 15. (The resurrection, the standing again, restores what Adam lost.)

Then William started discussing Paul's trial before Herod, in Acts 26.

And now it is because of my hope in what God has promised our fathers that I am on trial today. 7This is the promise our twelve tribes are hoping to see fulfilled as they earnestly serve God day and night. O king, it is because of this hope
that the Jews are accusing me.

What was this hope? It was the resurrection, the standing again. As Paul said two chapters earlier,

15and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. ... 21unless it was this one thing I shouted as I stood in their presence: 'It is concerning the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial before you today.

Paul continued with Herod,

22But I have had God's help to this very day, and so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said
would happen— 23that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles.

What light would Jesus proclaim? The hope of Israel. The resurrection. The standing again. (No one had been able to stand before God since Adam's sin.)

Where is this resurrection passage from the prophets and Moses that explained this light? William said Paul was referencing Isaiah 60:1

1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.

2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the LORD rises upon you

and his glory appears over you.


What William didn't notice is, Isaiah 60 references Genesis 1. The first standing before God was in Gen. 1:3.

Views: 255

Comment by Tami on August 11, 2010 at 3:21pm
JL,

While I am not comfortable defining resurrection as restoring what Adam lost, as immortality is something that I don't believe Adam ever had....

I think the connection between Isaiah 60 and Genesis 1 is amazing!! Just one more piece that fits with the covenantal picture of Genesis 1 and really doesn't fit at all with a material view.

Tami
Comment by JL Vaughn on August 11, 2010 at 4:08pm
Tami,

It appears that you and I don't have the same understanding as to what the resurrection is. I can imagine the headlines at SGP. Covenant Creation Contradictory on the Resurrection.

In Gen. 1:3, Adam had right standing with/before God. In Gen. 3:8, Adam had lost right standing with/before God. That is what was restored in the "standing again." I don't think resurrection itself was ever supposed to have any connotations of immortality.

Blessings.
Comment by Tami on August 11, 2010 at 4:25pm
I appreciate the comparison you are making, Jeff. However, 1 Corinthians 15 does indeed list immortality as a characteristic of resurrection (ie, the heavenly image they were being changed into--"when this mortal shall put on immortality, then the saying shall come to pass, death is swallowed up in victory.")

So while I see the relevance of what you are seeing there in Genesis, I think it needs to be worked in more with the big picture...

Let the knock down/drag out begin. They will have a field day with our mudslinging. :) Oh...never mind, we are still friends! ;)
Comment by JL Vaughn on August 11, 2010 at 4:33pm
Tami,

Didn't Alan speak on this? Aren't the "mortal" those actually "dead?" Like Adam when he couldn't stand? Isn't the immortality, the clothing that covers our nakedness? 2 Cor. 5 I need to listen Alan's talk again.
Comment by Norm on August 11, 2010 at 4:34pm
Tami and Jeff,

If you two cannot agree I'm just going to pack up my toys and go home as this obviously destroys the CC understanding I'm sure. 8() LOL

Norm
Comment by Tami on August 11, 2010 at 4:49pm
Jeff, I agree that immortality is the clothing that covers our nakedness! (Which clothing is the righteousness of Christ--garments of salvation, robe of righteousness, white rament...) But Adam never had it.

From what I have seen, my view on 1 Corinthians 15 and it's relationship to Genesis creation is very close to Norm's--in fact, I think I have more in common with Norm, at this juncture, on this issue than with anyone else that I know of.

I have much less in common with Alan's view. At this time.

Looking forward to a lot of great discussion in the coming months following this terrific conference. :)
Comment by Tim Martin on August 11, 2010 at 4:52pm
Tami,

I understand your concern.

Would it help clarify things a bit to note that Jeff is speaking in a legal context, rather than a theological context related to redemption?

I think that is what he is suggesting. Within a legal context, Adam was given life. That is, he enjoyed covenant relationship with God until he broke that relationship through disobedience, and had to "stand trial," followed by the legal judgment pronounced by God, the Lord of the Covenant.

I don't think the issue of Calvinism vs. non-Calvinism is anywhere in view of the text... really at all. The text is working from a legal or covenantal framework, not a soteriological framework that we seem to be focused on so often. What I am suggesting is that those subjects are controversies and theological concerns that we sometimes bring to the text due to our backgrounds and theological frameworks. They are important to us because they jangle in our heads loud enough to elbow their way to the forefront when reading various texts.

But what if those concerns are completely foreign to the original author?

Tim Martin
Comment by Tami on August 11, 2010 at 5:02pm
Hi Tim,

I am not sure I understand what you are saying with the Calvinism vs non-Calvinism thing, as that wasn't something I had in view. My point really had more to do with the text of 1 Corinthians 15 and the contrasts it makes between natural and spiritual (mortal and immortal, earthy and heavenly, corruptible and incorruptible, etc). That was my focus. But then....add in Paul's "I was alive without the law....:" which I believe *must* be in view when we determine what was going on at the fall, and it gets even more interesting.

These contexts and their relationships to one another are very difficult (for me anyway) and my study is in process. That's why I am not willing to be dogmatic on any one point right now.

Tami
Comment by JL Vaughn on August 11, 2010 at 5:37pm
Tami,

I was saying that immortality in 1 Cor. 15 is not immortality in our modern parlance. It is something we "wear." As Tim said, legal standing before God. (Thanks Tim.)
Comment by davo on August 13, 2010 at 1:16am
Hey Jeff… I think I get your drift but I could be wrong. As I see it, and I think this is what you might be alluding to – the "mortal" speaks to the OC whereas the "immortal" speaks to the NC and neither had any real thoughts towards a post mortem parlance. Thus "resurrection" i.e., "standing again" speaks of Israel's covenantal renewal/restoration where Israel again becomes God's "light" to God's world. The difference of course this time as opposed to the past was that gentiles now played a far more inclusive role than previously.

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