Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Listening to Alan Bondar series 'Salvation is Here' and he was talking about baptism and it got me thinking, as usual. Could it be that sprinkling was O.C. and submersion is N.C. ? It started to rain and Noah got on the boat and the ones submerged all died. So the flesh of Adam was saved through sprinkling not submersion. But first century they were to put to death the old man (Adam) and be raised in the Spirit as new man (Christ). The last Adam died because the priests did not bless him they threw him under the boat (no irreverence intended) and God's first century people were to join him in covenant death and be raised to new life by the Spirit. Jesus even went and preached the gospel to those who died in Noah's day (1Peter 3&4) so they could live in the Spirit even though they were judged (by the flood) as O.C. humans. 

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Comment by Dustin Curlee on December 17, 2012 at 4:26pm

Eohn,

Or could it be that the last Adam was "submersed" for everyone in a fulfillment of the requirement for righteousness so that the Law rite of baptism was fulfilled for those "in" the new Body?

Dustin...

Comment by Eohn Rhodes on December 18, 2012 at 8:38pm

Dustin,

Thanks for commenting. Could you give me some scripture to back up your comment? 

Romans 6:3-7

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?

we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.

For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, [so] also we shall be of the rising again;

this knowing, that our old man was crucified with [him], that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin.

Comment by Dustin Curlee on December 19, 2012 at 8:34am

Eohn,

I'm speaking about when Christ was literally baptized by John.

Scripture also confirms that Christ's burial was a "baptism" of sorts as well.

Christ fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the Law covenant for those who are in Him.

Dustin...

Comment by Eohn Rhodes on December 20, 2012 at 7:31pm

Dustin,

Christ was literally baptized  as if he were a sinner but when he came up out of the water the Holy Spirit remained on him because he was not a sinner. In the old covenant the head of the house was under law and so the Holy spirit only remained on Christ and empowered Him as a man (Adam) for ministry under law. So he fulfilled all righteousnes by his good living.

when He was baptized into death he was hung on a tree as if he were a sinner but since he was not the Holy Spirit raised him to the new creation as a life giving spirt. He could now pass on the life in the new covenant by sending the Holy Spirit to remain on us

Comment by Eohn Rhodes on December 20, 2012 at 7:52pm

So the water baptism by submersion seems to be the type of what really happened on the cross when Christ laid down his old covenant soul to cover his betrothed so she could be freed by the law to remarry the new man. so righteousness was fulfilled by his life under law and by his death on the cross and by his destruction of the old man in AD 70. So maybe water baptism by submersion was symbolic  of killing the old man and water baptism by sprinkling was symbolically to cleanse and keep the old man for a time. I'm open to discussion.

Comment by Dustin Curlee on December 21, 2012 at 8:53am

Eohn,

Okay, I think I'm now understanding. I didn't really get what you were trying to say before. I'm sure that's me though. I'm fairly dense. :)

The last thing you said --

So maybe water baptism by submersion was symbolic  of killing the old man and water baptism by sprinkling was symbolically to cleanse and keep the old man for a time.

This is what I've always held to. My only issue with this, and it may not be an issue at all, is that under the OC, "washings" weren't considered a crucifixion of a "man." They were just considered cleansing rituals. We look backwards on those rituals in light of the cross and see a "death" type in the submersion. I'm not sure it was there though. What are your thoughts?

Would you say that any sort of baptism/washing is mandatory post 70AD?

Dustin...

Comment by Eohn Rhodes on January 7, 2013 at 8:16am

Dustin,

Public washings of the ''old Man'' were reminders of his inability to keep law. So I may be changing my mind here by saying Noah's baptism and the Moses' Red Sea baptism were types of covenant transition baptisms. The flesh that followed Moses into the wilderness was the body that died and the 'new man' emerged.  Of course the 'new man' wasn't really the new man yet and would remain in the sprinkling mode. Jesus' baptism he had to undergo was to kill the old man on the cross. New covenant transition baptism symbolized the fulfillment they were living through as they were called to put to death the old man and emerge as the new man. Now baptism symbolizes what was completed in AD 70.

Comment by Dustin Curlee on January 7, 2013 at 8:29am

Eohn,

I agree with what you've said, again. But my question wasn't answered:

Would you say that any sort of baptism/washing is mandatory post 70AD?

Thanks,

Dustin...

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