Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

It is no secret that the partial preterist world tries its best to marginalize consistent preterism. Gary DeMar has called the movement a "tar baby" with only about 100 people in it. 

With that in mind, these two episodes of "Back to the Bible" with Woodrow Kroll, were quite surprising and may be harbingers of what is to come upon the partial preterist world. 

Kroll is embarking on an 8 week journey through the book of Revelation. 

During this episode (Sept. 5) he explores the "preterist" interpretation of Revelation. I was very surprised to hear Mr. Kroll actually give a decent (for a Christian Radio host) explanation of the preterist hermeneutic. It was clear that he did not completely understand our interpretation, but compared to some, he actually did a commendable job. 

Here are some very interesting things that jumped out at me:

1) He made it a point to say that full preterist were not heretics, even though he thought they were wrong. This is a huge step in the right direction, and it is just another sign that the door is slowly opening for full-preterism to have a seat at the table as a legitimate option. 

2) He equated the preterist interpretation of Revelation with "true" or "consistent" preterism! Later on, he basically said that there are "partial preterist" but they are incredibly inconsistent and he basically marginalized them. Throughout the entire show he dealt with the "preterist" paradigm in terms of full-preterism! He even made some comments that makes me think he is at least familiar with the Covenant Creation paradigm. 

Which brings me to the next show... 

In this show (Sept. 6) he is explaining his futurist beliefs about Revelation. He did spend a fair amount of time trying to refute the full-preterist position as well as explaining the myriad of "pre" this and that positions that one can hold. However, at about the 20 minute mark he made the most amazing statement. I will quote it below. 

Here is the context: Speaking about 2 Peter 3:1-7 he basically said that he could see that as fulfilled in AD 70 as long as the full preterist admitted that it could still be future.

Now, I want to be honest here. A preterist could look at that passage and say, “It’s done. It’s all done. Everything it said in that passage occurred in A.D. 70”. I would agree. Everything that it said could have occurred in A.D. 70. I would also say, though, that everything it said in that passage could still be future. I will give you the potential it’s maybe past if you will give me the potential it’s maybe not past.

Now, here’s why I think it’s maybe not past. Peter prophesied that there would be people who would deliberately forget that the heavens and the earth (the term defined as “in the days of Noah”—the heavens and the earth; the term defined in Genesis 1:1) the heavens and the earth would remain consistent throughout all generations.

There are people who say that the old heavens represent the old covenant. The new heavens represent the new covenant. As the old heavens are passed away, so did the old covenant pass away? As the new heavens have come, so the new covenant has come. You see where I am going with all this. A preterist says just as we are living under the time of the new covenant we are living under the time of the new heavens. And there is nothing future; it’s all now. This is the kingdom of God. This is the new heaven promised in the Book of Revelation.

And I say to you, my preterist friends, I am really disappointed if this is the new heaven. You know, I thought for sure it would be better than this. I thought for sure I wouldn’t have to pay taxes when I got to heaven. I thought for sure I wouldn’t have to take the dog for a walk when I got there, and I thought for sure all my relatives would love me dearly.

If this is heaven, I am sorely disappointed.

Now, I will give you the fact that the potential is there that these verses all relate to something past. I just ask you to give me the fact that the potential is there they all relate to the future. (emphasis mine)

There you go. Kroll clearly sees that full-preterism requires Covenant Creation. He connects 2 Peter 3 with Genesis 1! Ironically he rejects it for the exact same reasons Joel McDurmon and Sam Frost reject full-preterism. They didn't get what they expected!

The main thing is to know that covenant eschatology & covenant creation is the only consistent hermeneutic from Genesis to Revelation. In the future, the partial preterist world will be the one marginalized and eventually the Dispies and Amill's will only feel the need to debate with full-preterist. That day is fast approaching!

Views: 478

Comment by John on September 11, 2012 at 8:12am

Great post Micah..."They didn't get what they expected!"

Just like the first century Jews who rejected Christ because they didn't get the Jesus they wanted.

They should stop and think on that.

I think the most vocal opponents of full preterism and the ones that like to calls us heretics are the few ex-FP's and disgruntled partial prets frustrated with being unable to refute  full preterism without being inconsistent and having the premill folks pointing it out to them.

They're mostly fundamentalist and young earthers whose numbers are declining daily and we've got the answers for them.  

Comment by davo on September 11, 2012 at 9:55am

From my observations of these vocal ex-full prêterists, the most AMAZING and LAUGHABLE claims as to “what FP teaches” I don’t think I EVER heard them bleat such things when they were in the camp... they are just intellectually dishonest and have not a skerrick of credibility. IOW, what they are whipping up is nothing but sour cream.

Comment by John on September 11, 2012 at 11:44am

Davo,

Your 100% right on this point.I think it's most disturbing to see Christians out and out misrepresent others purposely but they seem to think all is fair in the fight against Full Preterism and the supposed elders associated with them play deaf dumb and blind to this disgusting behavior. 

They have no shame or honor IMHO!

Comment by samuel m. frost on September 12, 2012 at 1:17am

All that this shows me is that Dispensationalism and Full Preterism are "all or nothing" approaches, and confirms that these two views operate on the same hermeneutic of an "all or nothing" approach.  One is wholly future (Disp.), the other is wholly past (FP).  We have been saying this for a year now.  Not sure how it is kudos coming from a Dispensationalist!  lol

 

Comment by samuel m. frost on September 12, 2012 at 1:17am

And, John, keep in mind you are agreeing with a universalist......

Comment by samuel m. frost on September 12, 2012 at 1:21am

Davo, what things didn't I "bleat"?  Denial of progressive sanctification?  I bleated it.  Denial of the continuing incarnate body of the man, Christ Jesus?  I bleated it.  Denial of the end of history, an final bodily return, a non-physical resurrection, a  heaven only salvation?  I bleated it.  All heretical views to be sure, but I bleated them......I don't bleat them anymore.  And, as far your universalism, I didn't bleat that.....and many others didn't, either......

Comment by samuel m. frost on September 12, 2012 at 1:25am

and, quote, the author hits the nail that hyper prets have yet to solve: "And there is nothing future; it’s all now. This is the kingdom of God. This is the new heaven promised in the Book of Revelation.

And I say to you, my preterist friends, I am really disappointed if this is the new heaven. You know, I thought for sure it would be better than this. I thought for sure I wouldn’t have to pay taxes when I got to heaven. I thought for sure I wouldn’t have to take the dog for a walk when I got there, and I thought for sure all my relatives would love me dearly.

If this is heaven, I am sorely disappointed."

Infinte evil.  that's the answer. infinite wars.  infinite child molestation and rape.  Welcome to the new heavens.....so, tell me, when you die, if you are "already" in heaven, why will "heaven" be any different from "heaven" now?

Comment by davo on September 12, 2012 at 4:51am

Infinte evil.  that's the answer. infinite wars.  infinite child molestation and rape. 

 

Like I said Sam you are intellectually dishonest. To have written your ‘readers digest’ lite version “essays” of Max King’s tome with these doubts lingering in the back of your mind, as you have stated elsewhere, only demonstrates your rank opportunism.

 

As to your list above... you typically missed God’s provision of infinite GRACE.

Comment by Norm on September 12, 2012 at 8:00am

He said … “And I say to you, my preterist friends, I am really disappointed if this is the new heaven. You know, I thought for sure it would be better than this.”

This is indeed one of if not the biggest hurdles that we full Preterist have to deal with.  It’s the same expectation that the Jews had that rejected Christ.   His version of Heaven on earth wasn’t good enough. They wanted more: they wanted a physical Kingdom and rejected Christ because he didn’t constantly bring them “physical food to eat”.  Christians today follow in that same footsteps of the apostate Jews and they are not satisfied with Adam’s curse being lifted and “death” being overcome so that we now grasp and inherit eternal life.  They are not satisfied that “freedom” has been given and the “bondage” of the Law has been lifted and we don’t have to bow down to earthly priest who are corrupt any more.  No what Christ delivered just still wasn’t good enough for many…  they confuse the “gift of eternal life” and materialistically want it now.  You really can’t blame them, we all want pain and suffering to end in this physical world but it’s obvious that wasn’t Christ purpose in bringing His Kingdom that cannot been seen.

Norm

Comment by davo on September 12, 2012 at 10:12am

Yes Norm it's called "shallow"... you know it's possible to drown in 2" of water.

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