Deathisdefeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

I want to add a little more to the discussion of Adam and the 1000 years millennium idea found in Rev 20 that I spoke on a couple of weeks ago.

I have posted recently here that Adam’s lacking of 1000 years represents the same idea presented by Paul in 1 Cor 15 in which Adam is portrayed corporately epitomizing Israel’s “Dead” covenant status as God’s people. We see this illustrated in the Jubilees account written perhaps 200 years earlier by Jews. Adam and Eve  in early Genesis effectively presents a readers digest story of Israel’s history including the last days when one includes the Cain and Abel story the Flood account and also Babel and the 70 nations.  Cain represents a prophetic view of Satan’s seed or “brood of vipers” that ultimately are removed from the covenant standing when they like him are cast into outer darkness away from the face of God. The story emphasizes that Cain was a worker of the ground [works of the flesh] while his brother Abel was a shepherd of the flock and thus his [Cain’s] offering was not acceptable to God.

In the flood account it is said that all flesh [Jew & Gentile] would come into judgment just as occurred at the AD70 Parousia. An interesting numerical event occurs though in the flood story in that Noah did not father his three offspring until his 500th year and did not enter into the Ark until the 600th year. In my previous article titled “Six Days of Creation” I illustrate that the carrying away to Babylon was the beginning of the 5th Day and that John the Baptist inaugurated the 6th Day and final Day in which Christ becomes the Ark. I believe this idea is also found presented here in the application of Noah’s ages in which his boys ultimately are inclusive of the 70 Nations after the flood. When we add the 70 Nations to Adam’s 930 years we end up getting the nice round number of 1000 which indicates fulfillment and completion of Adam at redemption.

Let’s look again at Jubilees 4 and Adam’s account.

Jub 4:29 … thereof, Adam died … And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

Now I would like to present the Jubilees account that followed immediately after Adam’s death.

Jubilees 4:31     At the close of this jubilee Cain was killed after him in the same year; for his house fell upon him and he died in the midst of his house, and he was killed by its stones; for with a stone he had killed Abel, and by a stone was he killed in righteous judgment.

32     For this reason it was ordained on the heavenly tablets: With the instrument with which a man kills his neighbour with the same shall he be killed; after the manner that he wounded him, in like manner shall they deal with him.' [Remember that God only brings retribution on the apostate Jews for shedding their brothers blood just as He did to Cain not allowing retribution by others]

Did you also notice that Cain is killed in his own House and a stone killed him in righteous judgment? The stone imagery from the OT of course emanates from Daniel 2 and also Isa 8  that breaks not only apostate Israel but the Nations. The House IMO represents Israel’s mistaken confidence in the manmade Temple that they constructed.

Isa 8:14  And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15  And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken; they shall be snared and taken."

Dan 2:45  just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold.

Do you perhaps see that the First Century Jews already had the seeds of Messiah presented to them in many different formats?  However just recently I came across something that Mike Sullivan has presented before that ties in well with Adam living 930 years and the number 70 that completes him.

Here is what Mike presents.

1)      The Jews understood the millennium or transition period of Messiah's days to fulfill Adam's 70 years to reach a 1,000 (Jub. 4:29-30 - to fulfill the "probationary period") and or be a literal second exodus "generation" period. 
- Adam is the reference here in Psalm 90:3-4 (connected to the 1,000 years) and is the reference for 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 20. 
- The literal second exodus motif or "generation" is seen later in the Psalm 90:15-17. 

2)  All of the elements of the millennium can be seen taking place progressively during the transition period elsewhere in the NT: 
- resurrection
- judgment
- the success of the GC.
- reigning with Christ, etc...

3)  The Church being united to Christ, was fulfilling what was lacking in the first Adam.  She was putting on Christ and thus being clothed with immortality and in the process of being raised (from "the death" in Adam) - receiving eternal life - which is what the 1,000 years represents along with living as long as trees in Isaiah 65.   

 

70 years:

1)  Christ and the Church as the New Adam and New Creation - 930 + 70 = 1,000.  The Holy Spirit "overshadowing" Marry (Gen. 1).  All placing faith in Messiah are the New Creation foretold by the prophets.
2)  Christ and the Church the New Temple and Priesthood from porch to MHP = 70 cubits.
3)  Christ and the Church restores the nations which in Genesis we learn were 70 - with the one heavenly tongue of the Gospel (Acts 2).
4)  Christ the Church the new deliverer from the 70 years of captivity calling Israel out of her graves of sin and slavery (Cryus being a type).

40 years:

1)  Christ tested for 40 days which turns into the Church filling up what was lacking in his sufferings for 40 years before entering the "heavenly land" - new or second exodus motif.
2)  Christ fulfilling the 40 year Kingdom reigns over Israel of David and Solomon (AD 30-70).  He was both waring and establishing peace during this time.
3)  Christ and the Church fulfilling the New Temple and Priesthood - walking and being tested from HP to MHP - 40 cubits (cf. also transition of Hebrews 9 HP OC / MHP NC = Rev. 22:16).  

These ideas that Mike is presenting above go along with Luke’s account of the 70 Generations from Adam to Christ and the Enoch Book also accounts for the 70 Generations at the completion of Messiah.

Those of you that are familiar with Genesis may know that Elohim and YHWH are accounted for 70 times in the first 4 chapters of Genesis with 35 by Elohim alone in Gen 1-2:3 and 35 more for both through Gen 4:26. Also the 70 Nations are scattered at Babel and it is often pointed out by scholars that Pentecost is the beginning re-gathering of the 70 Nations. Also the Feast of Tabernacles has 70 Bulls sacrificed to represent the Nations by the Jews representing their inclusion with Adam at the redemption of Messiah and Christ confirms this in John and Zechariah.

Zec 14:16-18  Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.  (17)  And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.  (18)  And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; there shall be the plague with which the LORD afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. [This going up to Jerusalem is not to be taken literally like the modern dispensationalists do]

Notice that Christ at the last Feast of Booths [the 8th Day] before His crucifixion speaks of His being the living water for all peoples thus fulfilling Zec 14.

Joh 7:37-38  On the last day of the feast,[8th Day] the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.  (38)  Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"[Compare to the Priest pouring of water on the 8th Day to signify the blessings of rain upon Israel]

Lev 23:39  "On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the produce of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the LORD seven days. On the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.

So in conclusion Adam through his lifespan of 930 years represented Israel and the completion of the 70 years in many different ways points to the inclusion of all people into true Israel from the very inception of Genesis.

In Revelation we see where on the sixth Day or Last Day before Consummation, that the “rest of the Saints come to life and live and reign 1000 years after it has ended. This is at the end of the last 1000 year binding of Satan [6thDay] and I believe the new 1000 year reign corresponds to the everlasting 8th Day and not the previous one ended.  If the saints are living and reigning for a 1000 years during this period then they represent you and I just as well and so there is indeed another 1000 year Reign that unlike the previous 6 Days has no “Night” in it and thus is everlasting without end. That I believe is the imagery of Rev 20-22 IMHO.

Again I would like to refer to the Jubilees account of living lifespans to 1000 years in comparison with the language of Isa 65.

 

Take a look at how Jubilees uses the 1000 year age later on in its writings. This very idea is found somewhat similarly to Isaiah 65:20 discussing the New Heavens and earth. They remind that the ancients lived to nearly 1000 years [but not quite] because man [Adams] became progressively more evil as the peace of the Garden becomes a distant reality. In 23:28 though we see that this new time will bring back the path of righteousness and the life of the faithful grows nigh to 1000 years again even beyond the ancients who did not reach the 1000 year life span. Folks this is symbolic language here talking about the New Heavens and Earth and is simply a means of illustrating the Garden story that keeps continuity. This is what John is pulling from in Rev 20 in discussing the 1000 year reign of the saints he has under consideration and it is also how he uses 1000 years to denote the time of the Last Days.

 1000 years according to Barnabas and Augustine [and 2 Pet 3:8 also] is how you were supposed to interpret the Days of Genesis 1. That is also the gist of my six Day of creation discussion if you would like to review it for some more perspective. The last millennium or 1000 years denotes the sixth Day when man receives the Image of God through Christ as we see at Pentecost. 

Jubilees 23:12 And in those days, if a man live a jubilee and a-half of years, they shall say regarding him: 'He has lived long, and the greater part of his days are pain and sorrow and tribulation, and there is no peace:

Then they shall say: 'The days of the forefathers were many (even), unto a thousand years, and were good; but behold, the days of our life, if a man has lived many, are three score years and ten, and, if he is strong, four score years, and those evil, and there is no peace in the days of this evil generation.'

28 And in those days the children shall begin to study the laws, And to seek the commandments, And to return to the path of righteousness.  

And the days shall begin to grow many and increase amongst those children of men Till their days draw nigh to one thousand years.  And to a greater number of years than (before) was the number of the days.

And there shall be no old man  Nor one who is <not> satisfied with his days,  For all shall be (as) children and youths.

Isa 65:20   No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

I also want to remind that the 8th Day of Messiah was expounded upon in the Barnabas Epistle during the first Century and so these Christian writers made this exact correlation of the 1000 years as well.  By the way they presented the full Preterist view which even many full Preterist today haven’t yet grasped.

Examine the Barnabas chapter now in lieu of what we now understand about the 1000 years in Jewish parlance.

Barnabas CHAPTER 15

The Sabbath

1 Furthermore it was written concerning the Sabbath in the ten words which he spake on Mount Sinai face to face to Moses. "Sanctify also the Sabbath of the Lord with pure hands and a pure heart."

2 And in another place he says, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I bestow my mercy upon them."

3 He speaks of the Sabbath at the beginning of the Creation, "And God made in six days the works of his hands and on the seventh day he made an end, and rested in it and sanctified it."

4 Notice, children, what is the meaning of "He made an end in six days"? He means this: that the Lord will make an end of everything in six thousand years, for a day with him means a thousand years. And he himself is my witness when he says, "Lo, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years." So then, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything will be completed. [remember these are understood as symbolic 1000 year Days just as Peter and John utilize and Augustine picks upon to a limited extend]

5 "And he rested on the seventh day." This means, when his Son comes he will destroy the time of the wicked one, and will judge the godless, and will change the sun and the moon and the stars, and then he will truly rest on the seventh day. [the Parousia at AD70]

6 Furthermore he says, "Thou shalt sanctify it with clean hands and a pure heart." If, then, anyone has at present the power to keep holy the day which God made holy, by being pure in heart, we are altogether deceived.

7 See that we shall indeed keep it holy at that time, when we enjoy true rest, when we shall be able to do so because we have been made righteous ourselves and have received the promise, when there is no more sin, but all things have been made new by the Lord: then we shall be able to keep it holy because we ourselves have first been made holy.

8 Furthermore he says to them, "Your new moons and the sabbaths I cannot away with.[just like in Rev 21:23]" Do you see what he means? The present sabbaths are not acceptable to me, but that which I have made, in which I will give rest to all things and make the beginning of an eighth day, that is the beginning of another world.

9 Wherefore we also celebrate with gladness the eighth day in which Jesus also rose from the dead, and was made manifest, and ascended into Heaven.

1Th 4 also gives us a picture of what Barnabas and Rev 20:6 are presenting.

1Th 4:16-17  For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.  (17)  Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. [that is a picture of the eternal 8th Day IMO]

Because each Day is called a thousand year period and the 8th Day is another Day but with no ending then in principle it too can be called a millennium  period in which we all partake of its 1000 years blessings. That is why in Rev 20:6 those saints also lived and reigned a 1000 years after the previous one ended. However it really doesn’t matter what you call it as long as you grasp its significance for your life.

 

Views: 172

Comment by Doug on December 27, 2010 at 11:33am

Norm,

 

I think your hypothesis has great merit. I did not know when I mentioned to you the 8th day of the feast in your previous posting, that you would run with it as extensively as you have. But kudos that you did!

 

As with most theological things, I think it needs refinement. But the basic underlying premise, that Adam did not fill his 1,000 years because of unrighteousness, but that because we are alive and righteous in Christ and therefore DO fufill a 1,000 year lifespan beyond the millenium, known as the 8th day, is a sound one!

 

I am leery of putting together numerical sequences in the bible to make them fit an idea. I think this CAN border on eisegesis. I don't detect that in your writings, but I would just cautious all of us to not to be too hasty in doing this. All one has to do is look at the many bogus interpretations of "666" to see what I mean.

 

Finally, I want to ask what you meant by including Barnabas' quote:

 

"4 Notice, children, what is the meaning of "He made an end in six days"? He means this: that the Lord will make an end of everything in six thousand years, for a day with him means a thousand years. And he himself is my witness when he says, "Lo, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years." So then, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything will be completed. [remember these are understood as symbolic 1000 year Days just as Peter and John utilize and Augustine picks upon to a limited extend]"




If Barnabas is intending to say something significant here, it appears he would be AGAINST a preterist view, because he is taking the traditional view that another 2,000 years AFTER Christ has to transpire before the end. Do you see this another way? If so, please explain what you think Barnabas was saying.
Comment by Norm on December 27, 2010 at 12:56pm

 

Doug,

 

I think that is a fair assessment and a balanced means of looking at what I’m presenting. You must realize that what I’m presenting may have potential but needs to be ironed out better as we get into looking at these issues more effectively. I always have to start at some point and then as we learn and develop the themes and details better the picture starts to focus better. That is typically the way I operate, as I’m not one who is shy about being a little on the cutting edge to spark others into also giving their input. If there is one thing I have learned in biblical exploration is that one individual cannot typically know all the nuances and issues that a collective group can bring to bear. Thus the purpose of this blog is to stimulate discussion of the pro’s and cons and see if these propositions that I have presented can indeed be defended.

 

Doug the 8th Day as I stated earlier was something I was already aware of but had only begin to entertain it because I found some scriptural backing for it.  Typically what happens is that one begins to notice other scriptures that relate to a new idea if it is indeed supported through a biblical examination. I expect I will continue to see more nuanced implications of an 8th Day as time progresses and I expect others like you will contribute to the examination.  My gut instinct at this point is that it will hold up very well but perhaps with some tweaking along the way.

 

Concerning Adam’s 930 and the 70 discussion, this is indeed a little more subjective at this point. However it makes sense from a Hebrew theological and numerological investigation and likewise I believe it’s good to get these ideas out there on the table and see whom else like Mike Sullivan are seeing similar things. Doug I will say however that unless one really delves into Hebrew numerology and their usage it may often seem like some of us are stretching things a bit, however usually it comes from patterns that we see consistently in our studies. Unless one has been down similar roads it may indeed seem strange. If it has merit then again it will generally be validated over time.

 

Concerning the Barnabas quote. Notice I put as qualifier that if we read Barnabas through literal eyes we will think he is nothing more than a futurist. However there is plenty of reasons to realize that Barnabas is not using the 1000 years literally but is applying it similar to the way Peter does in 2 Pet 3:8 and how Augustine reads the 1000 year days of Genesis 1 to a limited extent.  Augustine took it partially literal and partially symbolic because he had already started drifting into futurism. Barnabas by close examination was probably written in the 50’s or early 60’s of the first Century and he was projecting everything to come to an end at the Parousia.  

 

First off Barnabas is quoting from Jubilees which uses the 1000 years symbolically and he would understand that. The reason is that Jubilees is a Jewish account of the time from Adam toward the Messiah. It was probably written 100-200 years earlier and the existence of the Jews by counting the Jubilees that they record only come to roughly 4000 years so he knew that his statement that in 6000 years was meant figuratively and not literally in the Jewish mind. Yet this is exactly how literalist understands his implications and in fact the early church took Barnabas and used it to foster their 6000 year literal ideas that are still with us. It takes a lot of study of Barnabas and other Jewish literature to realize that he was not speaking literally of 6000 years but of course a literalist will insist that he is.

 

One of the reasons he did not take it literally was because he has many imminent time statements within his epistle just as Revelation does that the time was short and upon them. Of course everyone ignores these time statements from Barnabas as we know literalist are prone to do.

 

Norm

 

Comment by Doug on December 27, 2010 at 1:50pm

Norm,

 

Perhaps that is why Barnabas was not included in canon?

 

Anyway, I am glad you understand the limits of numerology, and how it can be so easily sidetracked into pure speculation. Believe me, I have had my brush with numerology and speculation, and it typically leads to heresy if it is looked at through futurist eyes. OTOH, the sheer preponderance of numbers in the bible should indicate something to the serious bible student that God is trying to tell us something.

 

Lately I have been pondering how few people through history have really understood scripture. I don't mean that as disrespect for anyone, but the bible itself tells us how few understood it. For example, When Anna the prophetess and Simeon, when finally seeing the baby Jesus declared that they had come to the end of their days with gladness, because THEY knew what the Messiah would be and how to see Him properly when He appeared. They were well aged when this happened, and so that implies a lifetime of study to finally understand the Hebrew scriptures as intended.

 

Likewise, the wise men had to understand something to have undertaken a long journey to see the future king of the world and pay Him homage.

 

Daniel was considered the chief wise man in Babylon. Who knows what he understood, but it is clear that he studied a lot to come to the knowledge of the Messiah's future coming.

 

Paul the apostle understood things even Peter did not, as Peter himself says in 2 Pet. 3:16.

 

I mention this because for a long time I have had people tell me that orthodoxy ought to be appealed to when trying to figure out things that are unclear. I bought that line for a long time, and would simply accept things on faith, accepting that learned men had come to know these things and that I just had to accept it at that. Now, however, I think such an attitude is unacceptable to God. In fact, that attitude is likely the reason for the decline of the church. Many laymen simply accept whatever their preacher says, and as a result, the church overall is easy prey to practically any myth or heretical statement might come along. In addition, I believe the church cannot grow and fulfill its mission because it is so completely fragmented and divided over non-essentials. The heathen see this and use it to accuse the body.

 

Doctrinally, full preterism has the POTENTIAL to revolutionize the church, and its witness. nevertheless, I am not optimistic it will happen in my lifetime. But, I do want to at least be a part of laying a firm doctrinal foundation upon which later generations will build. Perhaps that is what we are doing here. I am glad to be part of this discussion. It has great value in its own right for future generations of people to build on. 

Comment by Norm on December 27, 2010 at 4:02pm

Doug,

 

Barnabas early on was considered useful and usually followed after Revelation until it was discarded about 300AD.  Revelation almost didn’t make it either which should give you an indication of the lack of knowledge by those who set the canon for the rest of us. You are essentially correct that for the most of our 1900 year history the church has not understood the Bible well overall. Now this statement will not go down well with the orthodox crowd who tend to venerate those who set the canon but I’m much more pragmatic about that issue. I believe we actually have much more information available to us today that sheds light on the subject which I believe gives us more leeway than the Orthodox crowd believes.

 

The tendency of some full Preterist to run back to that crowd magnifies that people have swallowed the canonization process without having examined it critically. I’m not one who likes to leave issues like that to the current status quo considering how poorly Religious groups have fared. There is plenty of work yet to be performed by unbiased well trained biblical scholars. What we are doing in the Covenant eschatology and Covenant Creation investigations is doing the work that has been needed but sorely neglected for myriads of reasons, yet even some supposed former full Preterist believe we are arrogant for thinking we amateurs can perform better work than the prior Reformers.  What they misunderstand is that we are literally the first generation that has been free enough and with sufficient tools to pull this investigation off as a group. Before hand the rulers of Catholicism and Protestantism squashed work like ours and burned us at the stake.  There have always been reformers but the environment has not been democratically enhanced enough to allow for sustained growth until now. Even now it will proceed slowly yet I believe steadily.

However I will caution that my statements above are still somewhat generalizations and the issues are much more complex than any of us can outline in just a few paragraphs.

Comment by Richard Walter Sire on December 27, 2010 at 6:14pm

Wow, thanks for posting this information.  I am very interested in this stuff.  Also I agree with the need for people to careful examine 'orthodox' positions on things...

 

Thanks!

 

R. Sire

Comment by Joseph Vincent on December 27, 2010 at 7:05pm

Very interested in all of this.  It ties right into my book on the Millennium.  I'm sure I'll be using many of these arguments for additional support.  Don't have time to weed through it at the moment, but will take my time with it. 

 

Joseph

Comment by Norm on December 27, 2010 at 7:21pm

 

Joseph,

 

I think it is time for us to revisit Rev 20 from the full Preterist perspective. From what I can tell your book should open up some good dialogue on a subject that has always presented some confusion even to us full Preterist.

 

I look forward to you completing your book and seeing how it is recieved. Should be interesting.

 

Blessings

 

Norm

Ken, I agree: from what I have read so far from Joseph on the Millennium he uses many of the same hermenutic arguments that we CC's use. Now its all about him getting comfortable with his new found company. ;-)

Comment by Doug Wilkinson on December 27, 2010 at 7:51pm

Regarding the cannonization of Revelation, I think it's worth considering that the Church of the East (the largest part of the church until it was destroyed by Islam, didn't consider the "Western Five" (2nd Peter, 2nd and 3rd John, Jude, and Revelation) to be cannonical.  They considered them important, but wouldn't vouch for them.  This link is to an interesting page on the topic (I don't know how accurate it is):

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

Comment by Doug Wilkinson on December 27, 2010 at 7:56pm
Just to be clear, the Church of the East still exists, though in only small numbers compared to their influence in the first few hundred years.  We think that it's great that St. Patrick was in Ireland, but the COE spread from Damascus to China, and from the tip of India to the steppes.  We are just now beginning to appreciate their history and doctrine.
Comment by Mike Sullivan on December 27, 2010 at 11:59pm

Hi Norm,

Thanks for quoting me here and doing some more developing.  I'm still working through the days in Genesis, but enjoy seeing the days of Messiah beginning with Jesus' birth as the New Creation/Luke 1:35/Genesis 1:2.   The AD 30-70 as the transition period or new exodus is pretty obvious.  I don't see two or three(?) 1,000 year or millennial periods though.  Is that what you are saying?  Might need some clarification on that. 

I see the 8th day to be the resurrection NC age.  In Luke 9:28ff. it is 8 days after (another gospel account says 6 days) that the transfiguration event is witnessed (after Jesus teaching on His second coming).  This is a preview of the fading OC glory of Moses and Elijah and the eternal abiding resurrection NC glory that would remain "listen to Him."  No need for abiding tents for the OC because it would be gone soon. 

 

In Christ,
Mike S.   

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