Norm, I really like the summary statement of the "prologue" framework for Genesis 1 that you posted on John's page. I especially like the way you referred specifically to the image of Christ and the Sabbath rest as culminations of creation which were prophesied from the beginning.
That reminds me, what I meant to add, is that I think you have the makings of an article with that paragraph. Precise articulation is so important, especially when you are trying to communicate with people who are pre-disposed to be opposed. :)
Anyway definitely hang on to that. I may even have to use it (in which case I will of course footnote you.)
Hey Norm....Actually I'm in SC right now. I'll be flying back on Thursday, meet with the Anestesiologist (spelling??) Friday, and Surgery on Monday. They will keep my in the hospital three days to make sure I'm not leaking spinal fluid and then I'm not sure.
Would definitely love to meet although definitely not Monday or Tuesday ;)
Oh, I'm TE also so I'm definitely comforatable with MB & SD ideas! Its hard to believe that's theres not more of 'us' around. I don't really discuss TE since I like to concentrate on the FP side of thing right now. Maybe once I work out all the eschatological questions I'll move on to that...
Not a problem. I still need to edit it a little more - not to mention there was a lot more NT passages I wanted to get in, but I didn't have a lot of time. I'll just keep it brief for now but will add to it later. I'll post here later tomorrow.
Thanks so much, Norm! I spent August of 2008 studying introduction to Greek at Westminster Seminary (Dallas campus). It was a joyful braintwister! Fall of 2008 included studies at WTS (now Redeemer College) in Greek II, intro to NT, and Intro to systematic theology. This was an effort to move toward a calling to be a pastor which I am reconsidering at the present time. I have a handicapped older sister living nearby who I help as much as I can. The thrill for Jackie and me is that our 6th grandchild is almost to be delivered and our 7th is due in January 2010. I work fulltime as a Rehab Tech in the Homeless Domiciliary at the Dallas VA.
Yes, I recall enjoying many interractions on Planet Preterist. I'm not a universalist, but it was true that I was allowed to contribute anyway, which was a joy.
Zion Valley Cumberland Presbyterian Church is a small, rural congregation about an hour and 45 minutes from where I live in Waxahachie. I was serving as a "supply pastor". They cannot afford a fulltime pastor. Beautiful country folks.
You have a delightful family. I'll have to get help to post family pics. (i'm technically challenged, you might say).
This website was referred to me by Sharon Nichols. She has, like some others, felt the need to move away from full preterism. I wish her the best. One of the issues that has come up has to do with whether one sees the finished work of Christ at Calvary as sufficient for the saving of sinners, apart from the 70 a.d. coming.
Thanks so much for your kind and thoughtful words, Brother. I'll comment more later. Yes, I do wrestle with the expectation of greater continuity in the outworking of New Covenant truth in the Church and in the world. But, I realize that such an expectation is an imposition of the natural urge for an order that is outward and visible.
Your thoughts reveal a maturity in the Faith that is very healthy.
Re: 2010 Covenant Creation "Days of Genesis" Presentation.
Thanks for the work you are doing within the Covenant Creation model. Your presentation really helped clear up a lot of things for me.
I was cleaning windows today and listening to Don Preston's Hosea series and a thought came across my mind that I thought I would share with you. I don't know if there is anything to it but I thought I would throw it out there in case you saw something in it also.
Hosea 6:2 "After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him."
Don (correctly I think) points to the correlation of this verse to Paul's teaching in 1 Cor. and uses it for his idea of a Corporate Resurrection in 1 Cor. I believe he is right in that connection. What I find interesting is that, according to my calculation (and my Bible history is not the greatest so I could be wrong) and Augustine's idea of 6 ages, this is exactly the timing of this prophecy. They would be struck down for two days (ages) and then Resurrection would be attained.
5th age = Carrying off to Babylon
6th age = John the Baptist to the time of the "end"
Third day = Sabbath rest / New Heavens and Earth / Resurrection
I thought it fit nicely but I am definitely not the expert, nor as nearly as well studied in this area as you but I thought I would bring that to your attention.
Feel free to copy this wherever you want. Like I said, you have spent much more time studying this than I have. I just heard it from Don's series on Hosea and I thought it fit nicely within the CC paradigm.
I agree that it refers to Christ (as does Jonah) and I also am not a big fan of "double fulfillments" but it is clear that Christ and Israel are so tied together they almost cannot be separated. Christ is Israel.
Now that I am seeing things through Covenant Eyes, I am amazed at how deep, beautiful and amazing the Scriptures are. We will never exhaust them and that is an awesome thought!
Here is another thought for you to add to the mix.
Mark 2:27: "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
I have always heard this explained in a superficial way, i.e the rest we get on Sunday's is really a gift from God as opposed to working all the time etc. etc.
Not that there is no validity to that "application" but I think your Creation Days work a lot better.
Here is what I mean. The Sabbath (7th day / age) was made for man because that is when man was to regain full fellowship with God (reversal of the curse). It seems that the Pharisees had taken the idea of the Sabbath and used it as another "dead work" to try to please God instead of hollowing it because of what it pointed too.
John 5:17 seems to indicate that the Sabbath day of Genesis was prophetic and not actual until all was fulfilled. (I also agree with John Walton that the "rest" does not mean idleness but "rest" means taking up residence now that everything is working properly.)
Anyway, I always had a hard time with the Sabbath passage and the traditional interpretation. It seems that applying it within the context of Covenant Creation / Fulfillment is a much better application.
I read your comments often, and notice that you are with a Christian Disciples church. I am too!
I once let my views be known about one DEARLY held dogma of the Christian church, and they showed me the door pretty quickly. Not literally, but I was not considered for any further service in that capacity.
So, seeing as you are an elder in the church, how is it that you hold your views to yourself on issues like prophecy and evolution? I am just looking for a way to fellowship while holding some of hte things I most want to talk about with brothers in check. It creates a tension in me that is maddening sometimes. I thought you could give some insight on how you do it.